Thoughts on latest release...

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.

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defaultuser
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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#31 Post by defaultuser » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:16 pm

One of the things you can do when you get near the end of what you want to research is to switch all planets to production (that can).

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#32 Post by MatGB » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:23 pm

defaultuser wrote:One of the things you can do when you get near the end of what you want to research is to switch all planets to production (that can).
Yup, and being able to do this from the Objects menu has made gameplay at this point SOOoooo MUCH EASIER
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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#33 Post by defaultuser » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:40 pm

Yeah, I like that feature. Helpful for those early incursions when you need some ships to handle some trouble, then switch back.

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#34 Post by ovarwa » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:49 pm

Hi,

Of course, probably the most important UI feature to look at is a button to disable the periodic BSoD that I get! (As well as the occasional CTD.)

(Any files you want from that?)

Gameplay from last night:

* Exobots+Microgravity is a potent combination. Especially if your main species' Industry has a problem. Usually, I would rather colonize using my main (and probably better species), but my starting situation was sparse and not so great for my species, so settling bots on Asteroids was attractive, even though I was already a robotic species.

* Weirdly, I saw the AI send a fleet into a monster-guarded system within the AI's detection range, beat the guardians down almost to death and then leave without taking and keeping the system. This happened twice, two different AIs for two different systems. The AI would not have lost a ship. In one case, it was the Eassaux (sp) who backed off with a rather decent fleet (hard to suck with 2 levels of good pilot), and a third AI with a lesser fleet took the system 2 turns later. (I'll be coming in in 10 turns with Titanics that are being built.)

* I reserached my way to and deployed Titanic Hulls for the first time. This seems better than Scattered Asteroid but costs fewer RPs to reach.

* I notice that I keep reaching hulls with core slots before there is anything to put there. This isn't so hard to do if you're not going for Solar Hulls.

* I like the Nano-Robotic Hull better than Self-Gravitating... but I went for the latter because I even more prefer a Titanic Hull, for which I don't need the NRH at all. So I don't expect any player who wants Titanic Hulls to ever deploy NRH: NRH is a speedbump on the way to Logistics Facilitator, which is itself redundant with NRH.

* I noticed that the AI players don't seem to do their fair share of active monster abatement. Even when I have very few ships (and I tend to postpone military whenever possible), I try to hunt baby monsters before they grow. The game's graphs have me way, way ahead of everyone else in that regard in this game. That might be because my empire is sparse, with many empty sectors, but the Laenfa next door have similar 'terrain', at least near me.

* The AI does seem to understand the benefit of outposting a Nest Special.

* I have noticed that creating a colony base (sometimes) depletes the population of the originating planet. I created one CB, and then the second went to Never on the production screen because the pop dipped. I had Cryonic colony pods, and the pop dipped by 3, so this was not a coincidence. I've gone to creating Outpost Bases and then Colonies.

* I still haven't turned on natives. Not sure what this will do for balance, other than ruin life for Xenophobes.

Still having fun... and have yet to try out the Egassem, who probably play differently from all the other species.

Anyway,

Ken

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#35 Post by defaultuser » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:22 pm

ovarwa wrote:* Exobots+Microgravity is a potent combination. Especially if your main species' Industry has a problem. Usually, I would rather colonize using my main (and probably better species), but my starting situation was sparse and not so great for my species, so settling bots on Asteroids was attractive, even though I was already a robotic species.
Agreed. The only problem is that you need to have a fairly high research into Growth before they can colonize there. In a sparse area, I will often do the "Exobot Shuffle", that is starting colonies on asteroid belts before they can live there, and moving them around in the production queue to keep from completing until Growth catches up. It's micromanage-y, but it works. I asked about a way to freeze items on the build queue, and I think they might be looking at that.

* I notice that I keep reaching hulls with core slots before there is anything to put there. This isn't so hard to do if you're not going for Solar Hulls.
Sure, but I don't worry too much about it. Many games I never research anything for core slots.
* I noticed that the AI players don't seem to do their fair share of active monster abatement. Even when I have very few ships (and I tend to postpone military whenever possible), I try to hunt baby monsters before they grow. The game's graphs have me way, way ahead of everyone else in that regard in this game. That might be because my empire is sparse, with many empty sectors, but the Laenfa next door have similar 'terrain', at least near me.

* The AI does seem to understand the benefit of outposting a Nest Special.
The worst is if they have Experimenters in their area. They let the spawn run wild and wreck up the joint, for me to clean up later.

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#36 Post by ovarwa » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:04 pm

Hi,
defaultuser wrote:It's micromanage-y, but it works. I asked about a way to freeze items on the build queue, and I think they might be looking at that.
Yeah. More clicking! It would be good to have a separate "defer" list. So there's a production queue, which I'd like to open as a window (not a screen) and right-clicking on an item gives me the option to move it off the queue onto a defer list, which I don't have to look at unless I open that as a separate window; or, the queue has a second pane for that stuff. Then I can move the deferred stuff back onto the production queue at my leisure.
* I notice that I keep reaching hulls with core slots before there is anything to put there. This isn't so hard to do if you're not going for Solar Hulls.
Sure, but I don't worry too much about it. Many games I never research anything for core slots.
Not a worry, but a design issue: Core slots should be desirable! One way to make them desirable is to strew the early tree with cool core slot items that appear with techs you're getting anyway. Then there's an extra incentive to get the core items. If core stuff is non-essential, core slots become a big shrug. Another way to make them desirable is to allow a core slot to increase the effect of a non-core shield or weapon placed there, say, by 50%. Another way is to allow a core slot to be used as an internal or external slot.
The worst is if they have Experimenters in their area. They let the spawn run wild and wreck up the joint, for me to clean up later.
I haven't played that far yet! For me, the worst is that letting monsters run wild hurts the AIs more than it hurts me, which makes them less challenging because they are stunted.

Anyway,

Ken

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#37 Post by MatGB » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:41 am

ovarwa wrote:Hi,

Of course, probably the most important UI feature to look at is a button to disable the periodic BSoD that I get! (As well as the occasional CTD.)

(Any files you want from that?)
A zip of the most recent autosave plus freeorion.log and freeoriond.log uploaded to a Gihub issue is always the best approach here, there are always going to be edge case crashes with the massive number of OS/hardware/graphics driver/etc configurations but we want to squash as many as we can.
* Exobots+Microgravity is a potent combination. Especially if your main species' Industry has a problem. Usually, I would rather colonize using my main (and probably better species), but my starting situation was sparse and not so great for my species, so settling bots on Asteroids was attractive, even though I was already a robotic species.
Yup, a huge part of me wants to make asteroids a hostile environment for most races but the balance issues are immense. I also think that microgravity is a bit overpowered for what it is, in some ways.
* Weirdly, I saw the AI send a fleet into a monster-guarded system within the AI's detection range, beat the guardians down almost to death and then leave without taking and keeping the system. This happened twice, two different AIs for two different systems. The AI would not have lost a ship. In one case, it was the Eassaux (sp) who backed off with a rather decent fleet (hard to suck with 2 levels of good pilot), and a third AI with a lesser fleet took the system 2 turns later. (I'll be coming in in 10 turns with Titanics that are being built.)
Sometimes the AI makes some, um, interesting decisions. If you do see something that's that daft, then again a recent autosave and the AI log for that AI zipped up will help: sometimes it can just be that they have priorities and missions, and the fleet is needed elsewhere for a higher priority (eg an invasion you can't see), othertimes it's simply the AI messed up: the latter ought to be fixed.
* I reserached my way to and deployed Titanic Hulls for the first time. This seems better than Scattered Asteroid but costs fewer RPs to reach.
Titans aren't a flagship, Scattered Asteroids are, the latter have fleet bonus abilities, Titans alongside Logistics Facilitators are one of the scariest combos you can deploy. Currently, the hulls are roughly balanced against each other in prodction cost vs game effect, the tech tree needs work.
* I notice that I keep reaching hulls with core slots before there is anything to put there. This isn't so hard to do if you're not going for Solar Hulls.
Yup: I deliberately added Core Slots to the Robotic/Constructed line earlier whereas other lines only get them in flagships, but there aren't a huge number of core slot items yet: there will be more and we actively want new ideas for things to put there, the Planetary Beacon is the most recent, the Spinal Antimatter gun is also newish, if you have other ideas for really cool things, please open a thread for them, even if you've no idea how to code it a good idea can be scripted by anyone.
* I like the Nano-Robotic Hull better than Self-Gravitating... but I went for the latter because I even more prefer a Titanic Hull, for which I don't need the NRH at all. So I don't expect any player who wants Titanic Hulls to ever deploy NRH: NRH is a speedbump on the way to Logistics Facilitator, which is itself redundant with NRH.
Aye, the balance within that line isn't as good as I'd like, but way better than it was: I personally see the nanorobotic hull fit well as a Battlecruiser analogue, good for semi independent operations, skirmishes, etc whereas the Gravitic is meant to be a mainline battleship.

When Influence comes in, different hulls will have different upkeep costs and having smaller hulls will in some ways be advantageous, I really want to move us away from the "always build the best you've got" approach the current mechanic encourages: you should need/want 'lesser' ships for patrol duty, garrisons, pickets, monster hunting, pirate stomping, etc. A squadron of Nanorobotic ships should be good for independent operations dealing with incursions, but not be needed in the main battle fleets: we're not there yet, but that doesn't mean we want to take them out in the meantime. I use them quite heavily, cost/benefit they're very good and I deliberately cheapened their research costs recently but the balance just isn't right.
* I noticed that the AI players don't seem to do their fair share of active monster abatement. Even when I have very few ships (and I tend to postpone military whenever possible), I try to hunt baby monsters before they grow. The game's graphs have me way, way ahead of everyone else in that regard in this game. That might be because my empire is sparse, with many empty sectors, but the Laenfa next door have similar 'terrain', at least near me.
Agree here, not my field but monster management doesn't seem to be something the AI prioritises, whereas I put it up fairly highly.
* The AI does seem to understand the benefit of outposting a Nest Special.
Yup, but isn't so good at guarding said nests afterwards, troops are cheaper than outposts ;-)
* I have noticed that creating a colony base (sometimes) depletes the population of the originating planet. I created one CB, and then the second went to Never on the production screen because the pop dipped. I had Cryonic colony pods, and the pop dipped by 3, so this was not a coincidence. I've gone to creating Outpost Bases and then Colonies.
Ah, yeah, new feature, because I don't use bases I never notice, probably needs better documentation: troops are meant to do similar but that needs some more work.
* I still haven't turned on natives. Not sure what this will do for balance, other than ruin life for Xenophobes.
Oh, you're missing a lot, some of the native species are really cool. It is a massively different game though.
Still having fun... and have yet to try out the Egassem, who probably play differently from all the other species.
Deliberately, yes, and they massively benefit from a native rich galaxy as well.

With or without natives, Egassem absolutely need to speed blitz opponents, they'll never win a research war but can easily outproduce anyone. Have fun (they're currently my favourite species to play)
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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#38 Post by Vezzra » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:21 pm

defaultuser wrote:I asked about a way to freeze items on the build queue, and I think they might be looking at that.
That has already been implemented, you should be able to use that feature with recent test builds.

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#39 Post by defaultuser » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:22 pm

Vezzra wrote:
defaultuser wrote:I asked about a way to freeze items on the build queue, and I think they might be looking at that.
That has already been implemented, you should be able to use that feature with recent test builds.
I will look into that.

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#40 Post by ovarwa » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:12 am

Hi,
MatGB wrote:there are always going to be edge case crashes with the massive number of OS/hardware/graphics driver/etc configurations but we want to squash as many as we can.
Scarily enough, my hw is very vanilla: Sandy Bridge with 4gb ram and integrated graphics. I'll rememeber files.
Yup, a huge part of me wants to make asteroids a hostile environment for most races but the balance issues are immense. I also think that microgravity is a bit overpowered for what it is, in some ways.
Yeah. Lots of Asteroids. More interesting if some species get them, I think, say, in combination with Narrow. So a robotic species that has one good type, 2 poor types, Asteroids as Adequate and the rest Hostile... that's interesting. Or even a species with Asteroids as their good environment. Balance issues are interesting, yeah.

I don't know if uGrav is overpowered: I always go for Adaptive Automation first. It's more expensive, but much better. Making uGrav shine does take a lot of investment: uGrav+Exobot+dealing with Poor env.
* I reserached my way to and deployed Titanic Hulls for the first time. This seems better than Scattered Asteroid but costs fewer RPs to reach.
Titans aren't a flagship, Scattered Asteroids are, the latter have fleet bonus abilities, Titans alongside Logistics Facilitators are one of the scariest combos you can deploy. Currently, the hulls are roughly balanced against each other in prodction cost vs game effect, the tech tree needs work.
I did notice that. Still, I'd rather have a fleet of Titans than a fleet of SA. The SA might have better flagship capabilities, but is a lesser Ship of the Line. Being able to add an LF on top is nice too.
, the Spinal Antimatter gun is also newish, if you have other ideas for really cool things, please open a thread for them, even if you've no idea how to code it a good idea can be scripted by anyone.
I didn't notice the Antimatter Gun 2 years ago, yeah.

I don't know if I have ideas for really cool things. More along the lines of *earlier* things. Like Core versions of each weapon, less spectacular and cool than the stuff you get at the end of the game, but something that can be put in a Core slot rather than just leave it empty.

Though I think that being able to get an Asteroid Mass Driver to hurl a whole (small) asteroid at an enemy from your Scattered Asteroid Hull would be a fine thing to find along the Asteroid Hull path!

Having earlier core items also allows the possibility of earlier ships with a Core slots, or later small ships.

Don't know. :) Except that it would be nice to have something to put into a core slot without having to wait 30 more turns. Leaving the slot empty feels odd. Not a breaker, by any means. Just.. empty. At the very least, being able to use a core slot as either an internal or external slot does something.
* I like the Nano-Robotic Hull better than Self-Gravitating... but I went for the latter because I even more prefer a Titanic Hull, for which I don't need the NRH at all. So I don't expect any player who wants Titanic Hulls to ever deploy NRH: NRH is a speedbump on the way to Logistics Facilitator, which is itself redundant with NRH.
Aye, the balance within that line isn't as good as I'd like, but way better than it was: I personally see the nanorobotic hull fit well as a Battlecruiser analogue, good for semi independent operations, skirmishes, etc whereas the Gravitic is meant to be a mainline battleship.
Hmm. Except that the damage control techs do much of that job. These stack with Robotic Hulls and LFs, iirc, so getting the first 2 damage controls and then going straight for Titanic lets you use Gravitics and then Titanics as battlecruisers too.
When Influence comes in, different hulls will have different upkeep costs and having smaller hulls will in some ways be advantageous, I really want to move us away from the "always build the best you've got" approach the current mechanic encourages: you should need/want 'lesser' ships for patrol duty, garrisons, pickets, monster hunting, pirate stomping, etc. A squadron of Nanorobotic ships should be good for independent operations dealing with incursions, but not be needed in the main battle fleets: we're not there yet, but that doesn't mean we want to take them out in the meantime. I use them quite heavily, cost/benefit they're very good and I deliberately cheapened their research costs recently but the balance just isn't right.
Pretty much no game gets this right. Either big wins or small wins.

Games tend to model big threats as being just plain bigger, rather than being diffuse. So the player needs to keep up. Many games (with Imperialism 1&2 being awesome standouts) also model a military in which armies wander the world, exploring or looking for something to attack. So you *can* have a scout explore in Civ, but as the barbarians get bigger, you'd rather explore with a legion or with a brigade of cavalry rather than with more or stealthier scouts. Barbarians and pirates (and submarines) are similarly not a diffuse threat, to be solved with rangers, pt boats, destroyers, etc, but with a big single unit, because there really is no choice. And then, these single big units can be combined for big attacks. Smaller units are less versatile. GalCiv2 tried to ameliorate this with fleets, but again there is a "best" point of equilibrium.

FreeOrion inherited this trait. Everything can be done with the same kind of unit. Small units for Krill supression? Ok, but if a big thing shows up instead, that doesn't help.

(ImperialismX also suffers to some degree: Galleons are the best ship in Imp2, for example; you don't really need anything else to do well.)

Same for weapons: The biggest, most cost-effective gun that will fit on a ship is probably the one to take for everything. So instead of multiple weapon types on multiple unit types, we get the best weapon/hull combination for any era, with obsolete ships being used for patrol or whatever.

The AI has a hard enough time when life is simple and it can try to figure out what the best ship currently is, though, so I'm not sure that fixing this problem is a great idea. :)/2
Yup, but isn't so good at guarding said nests afterwards, troops are cheaper than outposts ;-)
Of course, it isn't so good at guarding anything. :)

Having some tech to boost outpost troop levels would probably help the AI a bit!
Ah, yeah, new feature, because I don't use bases I never notice, probably needs better documentation: troops are meant to do similar but that needs some more work.
Hmm. Unless creating a colony from an outpost has the same effect, better to obsolete colony bases entirely, since anyone who knows won't use them. As for troops... yeah, that will need lots of work.
* I still haven't turned on natives. Not sure what this will do for balance, other than ruin life for Xenophobes.
Oh, you're missing a lot, some of the native species are really cool. It is a massively different game though.
Just turned them on. It's a different game, for sure. A lot more entropic. There are more awesome systems now, but also more challenges. In one game, I can start utterly blocked in by sentries and sentinels and the only natives are useless gardeners with lots of troops and with a drone factory 4 hops away (on the other side of a guardian)... In another, I can be the Gyasche with a few good worlds nearby, the local natives are the +3 pilot race and the 200% industry race, the easy maintenance ship is guarding ruins that contain the +10 shield, and there are lots of asteroids for me to deposit Exobots.

(For the latter game, I went with Sentient Hulls. I *still* don't like the hulls, but I do like the way much of the RP I have to spend goes into Growth tech. It's a young galaxy, so Solar Hulls aren't an option; not even a red star nearby. Stacking Scattered Asteroid shields looked attractive for +13, but they're *so slow*, and I preferred investing in growth tech to crystal armor, since I already have Shields. Titanic Hulls... I did that the previous game. So here I am at Turn 130, spamming Sentient Hulls with 3 Diamond Armor and 3 Death Rays (at level 4, naturally, 45 damage each), and now with the +60 Stealth component. I probably should have gone for Titanic or SA, to better leverage that expensive shield. But it doesn't matter, since very little can damage my ships. I feel like a cheaty McCheaterton, and think maybe to restart. Just conquered a race with good troops too...)
Still having fun... and have yet to try out the Egassem, who probably play differently from all the other species.
Deliberately, yes, and they massively benefit from a native rich galaxy as well.

With or without natives, Egassem absolutely need to speed blitz opponents, they'll never win a research war but can easily outproduce anyone. Have fun (they're currently my favourite species to play)
If there isn't anyone sufficiently nearby to pummel, and no suitable planets, the Egassem are toasty. Because by the time they reach something to pummel, a fast research race with a few worlds and Adaptive Automation can outproduce the Egassem quite handily. But entropy can happen to anyone. Gyasche with no other worlds to colonize unless monsters are killed are also very unhappy, I discovered.

The species descriptions remain a lot of fun.

Anyway,

Ken

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#41 Post by defaultuser » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:12 am

My current game is Egassem. Ran across two native races, Abaddoni and Ugmors. Well that's a lot of help. And no real planets for any of the three to colonize. In fact when I got a second Abaddoni world (stole it from the neighbors) I evacuated it and used the original colony ship to create a new forward base. Had to rely on Exobots for most of the early colonization

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#42 Post by ovarwa » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:08 pm

Hi,

Well, sometimes the AI can do good things! I was in a perfect position for Egassem, with two AIs right on top of me, except that I wasn't Egassem but Chato. Despite building as fast as I could, the AI did a very good job of getting its forces to one of my planets before I could make it, mutually destroy our fleets and occupy the system. So... happy AI.

In a next game, I had my homeworld with one lane out, leading to an empty sector with one lane out, leading to emplaced monsters. But not quite ouch, because that home system had *three* large Good worlds. There were three AIs nearby, and I could see their scouts... but monsters. So I had just one system for a long while, until I broke out with a fleet. It's an exciting game, except that I'm about to build my first Titanic, and the AIs have junk, so probably soon not so exciting. Of course, my troops suck, since the natives I captured from Laenfa either also suck or can't build any.

Spiral young galaxy. Spiral seems very different from cluster.

Previous comments about Asteroids continue to hold, I think. Phototropic is a big penalty if the galaxy isn't Young.

Anyway,

Ken

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#43 Post by ovarwa » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:24 pm

Hi,

Found a use for the NRH: A high-research species might like the idea of rapidly getting here. The extra building needed is cheap. The 6 external and 1 internal slots are quite serviceable for a long time. Instead of researching better hulls, going for other technology is quite attractive. Not as cost-effective as other approaches, but self-healing is nice, and having what you need at the right time is more important than ship cost, especially if other pursuits let me more than eat the cost. No other hull is needed for a long time against the AI. The slow, Heavy Asteroid is also workable. But... slow. And no self-healing. Sentient Hull also has 6 internal slots and is arguably better, but it takes a long time to reach. Quantum or Fractal Hulls might offer more, but you need the right star. If your species suck at piloting, it is easy to plunk a cheap nano building onto a better native species, then research other stuff while looking for that black hole or even better species for late game ships. Also, getting the basic Robotic Hull is pretty much required anyway. Self-Gravitating Hulls require a more expensive building, which could be 2.25 ships.

I notice 2 basic cases: Either my start give me sufficient breathing room to develop a little bit before meeting AIs, or the AIs are so close that I have to deal with them within the first 15 turns. If I have breathing room, I can break out with a small fleet of Robotic Hulls, which hold their own until I bring up something bigger. The AIs don't really know what to do with breathing room of their own. They grow, but only a little. I suppose they don't know how to detect being relatively isolated. But the AI does a better job when it finds a nearby enemy early on, keeping on the heat until its ships become obsolete or it wins.

Back to hulls: The robotic path seems especially advantaged as the default choice, which might be intentional: The special building is already on your homeworld. There are no system requirements. The starting, midrange and advanced hulls are all solid. Flux hulls offer cheap slots. Organic Hulls cost relatively low RPs, but take many turns to finally achieve 6 internal slots, which are currently far more important than internal or core slots. Asteroid hulls require a local asteroid, at least one special building, are slow, and offer side benefits that overlap with the Zortium Armor that were probably bought for the Robotic Hulls also probably bought. Energy Hulls are the best of all, but finding the right system can take a very long time.

BTW, some UI questions:

Sometimes when the research or production queue is longer than what fits on the screen, scrolling stops working properly: when I scroll down, the list snaps back to the top. Is this a UI setting or is it a bug?

On the production screen, the pedia is always underneath the list of items I can produce at a system. Is there a way for the pedia to be on top?

On the research screen, it is possible to widen the queue window so that it underlaps the tech tree. But then it is not possible to readjust the queue window, because the tech screen is on top. Is there a better way to fix this than going into the config XML?

Anyway,

Ken

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#44 Post by Vezzra » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:58 am

ovarwa wrote:Sometimes when the research or production queue is longer than what fits on the screen, scrolling stops working properly: when I scroll down, the list snaps back to the top. Is this a UI setting or is it a bug?
Bug.
On the research screen, it is possible to widen the queue window so that it underlaps the tech tree. But then it is not possible to readjust the queue window, because the tech screen is on top. Is there a better way to fix this than going into the config XML?
Never noticed that (because I never resize the queue window). But even if there is some other way of fixing that than editing config.xml, the fact that you have to ask makes this an UI glitch which should be addressed properly. Can you open a github issue for this?

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Re: Thoughts on latest release...

#45 Post by chaz572 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:09 am

Vezzra wrote:
ovarwa wrote:Sometimes when the research or production queue is longer than what fits on the screen, scrolling stops working properly: when I scroll down, the list snaps back to the top. Is this a UI setting or is it a bug?
Bug.

Ah, good, so that one is known already. It's affecting me, too. Played about 250 turns into the game before it struck, now I can't get it not to happen. Sadly, I can't give you much of a bug report. I was doing some kind of production queue manipulation the moment it first happened, but I don't remember what. Adjusting the order of something by drag-and-drop, maybe? Not completely sure now. All I do remember for sure is my production queue was seriously butt-long at the time, at least five times the window height. It was either the turn of, or the turn after a black kraken escaped my quarantine perimeter, and decided to squat on the system where I was spending 3/4ths of my total production on shipbuilding. So as not to waste the PP, in case he stayed and cut off that system from all other supply, I added a whole bunch of other projects on other systems to the queue. Then the bug struck, and I found it impossible to reach those duress-added items to reorder or cancel them, making me stuck with the warships already queued for quite a while, in the midst of beating back a black kraken outbreak. :shock:

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