How do you use stockpiled PPs?

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Oberlus
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How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#1 Post by Oberlus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:29 pm

Hi,

Playing last test version, 2017-11-13.b6940d0.

How do I do to invest PPs from my Imperial Stockpile? Into a given project, or just back into produced PPs, whatever.
When I have less PPs than what I could be using the IP is not lossing any PP.

I couldn't find an explanation of that in the Pedia (one entry is just blank).

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:40 pm

Right click something on the production queue. There is a command to enable stockpile use for that item.
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Enable_Stockpile_Use.png
Enabling stockpile use on production queue.
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Ouaz
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#3 Post by Ouaz » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:16 pm

Oberlus wrote: I couldn't find an explanation of that in the Pedia (one entry is just blank).
Which pedia entry, please?

If a pedia entry is blank, it means there is an incorrect key in the related focs file, and it needs to be fixed.
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Oberlus
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#4 Post by Oberlus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:33 pm

Thank you very much, Geoff.
Ouaz wrote:Which pedia entry, please?
"Imperial Stockpile use limit".

BTW, the techs "Interesteral Entanglement Factory" and "Predictive Stockpiling" are listed in "Technologies" as if they were categories, instead of within their proper category (Production?).

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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#5 Post by Ophiuchus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:45 pm

If this hasnt been fixed yet
please open an issue.
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alleryn
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#6 Post by alleryn » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:49 pm

While we are on pedia stuff, what is up with "Meter Type/Stat - Primary" and "Meter Type/Stat - Secondary". The entries are simply "The primary stat of an object" and "The secondary stat of an object". Are these used for anything?

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Vezzra
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#7 Post by Vezzra » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:55 pm

alleryn wrote:While we are on pedia stuff, what is up with "Meter Type/Stat - Primary" and "Meter Type/Stat - Secondary". The entries are simply "The primary stat of an object" and "The secondary stat of an object". Are these used for anything?
Their use depends on the part type. AFAIK, most parts only use the primary meter type/stat. E.g. shield parts increase a ships shield meter. IIRC only the hangar parts make use of both, the primary meter type/stat defines the number of fighers the hangar can hold, the secondary meter type/stat defines the fighters strength (that is, the damage a single fighter deals).

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alleryn
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#8 Post by alleryn » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:45 pm

Oberlus wrote: BTW, the techs "Interesteral Entanglement Factory" and "Predictive Stockpiling" are listed in "Technologies" as if they were categories, instead of within their proper category (Production?).
This applies to Generic Supplies and Transcendent Design as well.

Is Transcendent Design correctly listed as a construction tech? It unlocks a building, but that building affects the imperial stockpile ratios, so it feels to me like it ought to be in the same category as the other imperial stockpile techs. After all, Industrial Center isn't a construction tech.

I think for this part we just need to add

Code: Select all

tags = [ "PEDIA_CONSTRUCTION_CATEGORY" ]
or

Code: Select all

tags = [ "PEDIA_PRODUCTION_CATEGORY" ]
to the files:

freeorion/default/scripting/techs/production/IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_1.focs.txt (This is Predictive Stockpiling)
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... 1.focs.txt
freeorion/default/scripting/techs/production/IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_2.focs.txt (Generic Supplies)
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... 2.focs.txt
freeorion/default/scripting/techs/production/IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_3.focs.txt (Interstellar Entanglement Factory)
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... 3.focs.txt
freeorion/default/scripting/techs/construction/TRANSCEND_DESIGN.focs.txt
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... N.focs.txt

So, 3 questions:
  • Should Transcendent Design remain a Construction Tech or be moved to a Production Tech?
  • Should/can the IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_x.focs.txt files be renamed to match their tech names?
  • Should this be opened as a separate issue from the empty Meter Types/Imperial Stockpile use limit pedia entry? Or should they be one 'pedia cleanup' issue?
Last edited by alleryn on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MatGB
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#9 Post by MatGB » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:18 pm

Vezzra wrote:
alleryn wrote:While we are on pedia stuff, what is up with "Meter Type/Stat - Primary" and "Meter Type/Stat - Secondary". The entries are simply "The primary stat of an object" and "The secondary stat of an object". Are these used for anything?
Their use depends on the part type. AFAIK, most parts only use the primary meter type/stat. E.g. shield parts increase a ships shield meter. IIRC only the hangar parts make use of both, the primary meter type/stat defines the number of fighers the hangar can hold, the secondary meter type/stat defines the fighters strength (that is, the damage a single fighter deals).
Weapons. Secondary stat is rate of fire, currently mostly used for Flak Cannons but I think there's a monster that does something interesting with it as well.
Mat Bowles

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alleryn
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#10 Post by alleryn » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Are "Primary"/"Secondary" placeholder names? Maybe the pedia entries should at least be updated to indicate that they have something to do with ship parts (weapons/shields/fighter bays)?

Not that big a deal, but slighty irksome when it just says "primary stat of an object". Feels out of place.

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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#11 Post by dbenage-cx » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:02 pm

alleryn wrote:Should/can the IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_x.focs.txt files be renamed to match their tech names?
Might be nice to have these in a new pedia category (under production tech category).
TRANSCEND_DESIGN is slightly mismatched with key name, but not enough to be overly confusing which file to look for.
Should this be opened as a separate issue from the empty Meter Types/Imperial Stockpile use limit pedia entry? Or should they be one 'pedia cleanup' issue?
Unless related, separate issues, we run the risk of a blanket 'pedia cleanup' issue never being closed ;)

re meter descriptions:
I only added some basic descriptions for Population, Rebel Troops, Capacity(Primary Stat), Secondary Stat, and Size.

Population should probably remove reference to colony, ships have population meters as well.

Primary/Secondary Stat were difficult for me to describe, especially without referring to concepts of the underlying mechanics.
While Secondary Stat is only be used for ship parts currently, from the name it sounded like the intention was for potential use in other definition types as well.

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alleryn
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#12 Post by alleryn » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:10 pm

The way i see it, there are 3 issues here related to the pedia:

1. Adding info to entries in the "Meter Type/" pedia category. This includes
  • the main issue in this thread, the empty "Imperial Stockpile Use Limit" entry, along with
  • modifying the "Population" entry to make it clear that not only colonies, but also ships can have population
  • adding some kind of information to the "Stat - Primary" and "Stat - Secondary" entries, and possibly renaming them
  • modification to any other entries in the "Meter Type/" category, possibly including "Rebel Troops" and/or "Size"
2. Cleaning up the Imperial-Stockpile-related techs in the "Technologies/" category:
  • Moving Transcendent Design from Construction to Production (if desired)
  • Adding [tags] to the focs files to get them into their proper categories, e.g. "Technologies/Construction/"
  • Renaming the freeorion/default/scripting/techs/production/IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_x.focs.txt files to reflect their tech names, e.g. IMPERIAL_STOCKPILE_1 to PRED_STOCK (if desired)
3. Further subcategorization of the "Technologies/" category. This would include moving the four Imperial Stockpile techs to a single sub-category (this would necessarily be predicated by the optional movement of Transcendent Design to Construction in (2)), and subcategorization of other techs, for example "Self Defense" (debatably, since it also improves shields), "Planetary Bunker Complex", "Defensive Militia Training", "Planetary Fortification Network", and "Planetary Guard Brigades" as a defensive troop subcategory within "Technologies/Defense/".

My plan is to open issues for (1) and (2), and to make a new forum thread for (3). I'm tempted to tackle (2) on my own, but i'm not really sure if i'm ready for that. If someone gets to it, all the better, otherwise with luck i'll be ready to attempt something on that small of a scale within a week or so.

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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#13 Post by Dilvish » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:25 pm

dbenage-cx wrote:Population should probably remove reference to colony, ships have population meters as well.
Although Geoff has contemplated that we might some day introduce a ship subclass that also inherits from PopCenter and/or ResourceCenter, they currently do not, and it appears to me that ships do not currently have Population meters. (And my recollection is that colony/outpost type ships rely purely on the capacity meters of their colony pods.)

So for now I think it's fine if discussions of population refer to planets and/or colonies.
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alleryn
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#14 Post by alleryn » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:34 pm

Update: I've opened an issue for (1). https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/issues/1880
I'm still ruminating over the Primary- Secondary- stat thing.

I saw this in the other thread
dbenage-cx wrote: Since the capacity meter varies according to context, I created the stub of "Stat - Primary", similarly "Stat - Secondary" for the secondary stat meter.
This idea was to prefer the use of a specialized article over the general meter type, because the later would need to include any potential value types, not just one description.
e.g. [[encyclopedia DAMAGE_TITLE]] instead of [[metertype METER_CAPACITY]] when referring specifically to damage.
Possibly any such value types could use METER_CAPACITY as the category, and then merge the article for secondary stat to capacity.
but i can't say i really follow it. I'm a bit confused on how it's going to display in the objects window with fleets. I believe Vezzra mentioned that Primary can apply to shields, and MatGB said Secondary can apply to flak cannon rate of fire. And then they can both apply to fighters/launch bays. So what will it display if a ship has launch bays and shields, for example (or is this not possible?). I'm planning to do a bit of testing on this. EDIT: Oh i see now that the capacity/secondary meters are applying to the parts, not to the ships themselves; makes much more sense.

As far as Size goes, i know it can apply to fields. Does it have other uses? ("Size as number", as i understand it, is different and applies to planets. As it's a static value, it is not a meter [then again something like Max Troops seems to be classified as meter; perhaps i'm making a false distinction], so is separate from "Size")

~~~~~~~
(2) is still pending
~~~~~~~
(3) also is pending; my current plan is to merge it into Ouaz's thread http://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=10343
Dilvish wrote:
dbenage-cx wrote:Population should probably remove reference to colony, ships have population meters as well.
Although Geoff has contemplated that we might some day introduce a ship subclass that also inherits from PopCenter and/or ResourceCenter, they currently do not, and it appears to me that ships do not currently have Population meters. (And my recollection is that colony/outpost type ships rely purely on the capacity meters of their colony pods.)

So for now I think it's fine if discussions of population refer to planets and/or colonies.
I'll update the issue on github to reflect this. Just checked and Population, Capacity, Max Capacity, Secondary Stat, and Max Secondary Stat for Colony Ship are all zero. So it does seem to be just the Capacity of the Colony Pod Ship Part.

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alleryn
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Re: How do you use stockpiled PPs?

#15 Post by alleryn » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:37 am


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