some playing advice

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Sindarin1
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some playing advice

#1 Post by Sindarin1 » Tue May 08, 2018 10:18 am

Hi i've returned to freeorion since a while of not playing.

I would ask some advice,

Do you frecuently srap your obsolete ships?

and

I'm playing with the normal dificulty AI, but they get agresive too early and i feel that i'm focusing too much on research than on getting some low tech ships to repel early attacks... but when i try to play on the contrary they are sending me though asteroid ships that i cant compete... any advice on this?

thank you in advance.
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AndrewW
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Re: some playing advice

#2 Post by AndrewW » Tue May 08, 2018 3:41 pm

Sindarin1 wrote:Do you frecuently srap your obsolete ships?
Generally it is a good idea due to fleet upkeep if you aren't using them anymore, though I don't make a habit of it myself.
Sindarin1 wrote:I'm playing with the normal dificulty AI, but they get agresive too early and i feel that i'm focusing too much on research than on getting some low tech ships to repel early attacks... but when i try to play on the contrary they are sending me though asteroid ships that i cant compete... any advice on this?
Could try a larger galaxy size or less AI's so things are more spread out.

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Oberlus
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Re: some playing advice

#3 Post by Oberlus » Wed May 09, 2018 10:01 am

Sindarin1 wrote:I'm playing with the normal dificulty AI, but they get agresive too early
AI will go for you if you are the weakest neighbour, and leave you alone if you are strong enough to make them prefer engage other AIs.
i feel that i'm focusing too much on research than on getting some low tech ships to repel early attacks... but when i try to play on the contrary they are sending me though asteroid ships that i cant compete... any advice on this?
I guess your problem is not too much or too little research but not the right one.

Keep in mind that with current FO implementation getting early Adaptive Automation (+5 PP per planet regardless of planetary focus and population) and Nascent Artificial Intelligence (+2 RP per planet regardless of planetary focus and population) is always advisable.

Also scouting is important to keep an eye on your enemies' forces (techs and amount), so that you can adapt your priorities (if no menace nearby, focus on expansion, otherwise get your forces at least on par with nearby enemies; this includes focusing both production and research towards warfare). My initial production queue is almost always two scouts and an outpost ship.

Please post your tech queue for further advice. Also, tell us in which turns do AI tend to attack you (depending on your strategy).

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Re: some playing advice

#4 Post by Sindarin1 » Wed May 09, 2018 12:03 pm

I'm working with this advice, http://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtopi ... =28&t=9954
Starting with trying to get the robotic hull with full mass drivers as soon as possible, but doing at the same time some research on production and research improvement.
If I feel there are hidden enemies, I set priority to get the first radar tech.
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Oberlus
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Re: some playing advice

#5 Post by Oberlus » Wed May 09, 2018 1:54 pm


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Dilvish
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Re: some playing advice

#6 Post by Dilvish » Wed May 09, 2018 3:59 pm

Sindarin1 wrote:I'm working with this advice,
I note that guide seems to be recommending the Elliptical galaxy shape. That galaxy shape tends to make a very highly connected starlane map that enables faster expansion and provides fewer chokepoint defensive locations. Perhaps you've already ignored that part of the guide and are experimenting with other galaxy shapes, but if not then I'd recommend you do so. And don't forget to also be advancing your planetary defense techs.
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defaultuser
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Re: some playing advice

#7 Post by defaultuser » Thu May 10, 2018 4:41 am

As far as research, something new is to go for Physical Brain early to unlock the History Analyzer.

phocas
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Re: some playing advice

#8 Post by phocas » Sun May 13, 2018 11:55 am

Sindarin1 wrote: Do you frecuently srap your obsolete ships?
.
as far as i know when you scrap a ship you get nothing back

so i kept my obsolete combat ship in the hot front line to give canon foder to the ennemy and save a few shots against my expensive new ships

my fisrt ship are outposts and no combat ships while early researching science and prod tech before combat

i never buld maser ships and start my combat ships with the laser tech event on level 1 with lower dps than the full maser
may i can upgrade the laser tech my laser ships combat will upgrade freely

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Re: some playing advice

#9 Post by o01eg » Sun May 13, 2018 2:11 pm

phocas wrote:
Sindarin1 wrote: Do you frecuently srap your obsolete ships?
.
as far as i know when you scrap a ship you get nothing back
Any existing ships increases cost of building new ships.
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Re: some playing advice

#10 Post by phocas » Sun May 13, 2018 4:17 pm

o01eg wrote: Any existing ships increases cost of building new ships.
yes but how much ??
what is the formula

in an early game when you have enough fingers to count your ships (could depend from species.. :wink: )
how can you say if it his better to have some more old hulls to take battle damages and be killed before the new ships
against the increasing costs to build the new ships

for example if my new robot ship with 50 hull point is x% more costly because i kept 2 large ships with their 50 hull point (2x25)
it could be better to have 3 ships and 100 hull point and some more small guns in combat rather than 1 single robot buld 1 turn earlier


@sandirin
it's not bad too focus on research in the beginning but choose short time research to have results soon
for example it is a very bad idea to look for plasma gun in the early...
you have to mix long term purpose research (increase research/production/population)
with some military research

some research tips are there http://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtopi ... =28&t=9954

you have to keep your production busy and planed you research in this purpose
never lost any production point
for about 20-30 turn make "civil" production like outpost ships, some scouts and some tech production
when this first ships will be produced you should have get some research battle upgrade
you have to build some combat ship with at least a few research upgrade at this point

another option, i you have a planet on a shock point where the ennemy will come
you can raise the planetary defense (not so costly for the first steps) and leave no defense ship
let the ennemy be wounded by your defenses then make a quick jump to fall on him the next turn to kill him
so you can kill him with a lower fleet than his
do not forget to fall back you ships for repair (need a drydock)
it is free too repair a ship and far less costly than building a new one...
if the battle is not over after a year check you fleet and backoff the most damaged to save them (only if their depart won"t cost you the victory)

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Oberlus
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Re: some playing advice

#11 Post by Oberlus » Mon May 14, 2018 6:46 am

phocas wrote:
o01eg wrote: Any existing ships increases cost of building new ships.
yes but how much ??
what is the formula
As of 0.4.8, when you have N ships, the next ship you build will cost (1+N/100) times its base cost (calculated from its hull and parts).
So for a ship that initially costs 100 PPs, when it's the ship number 50 it will cost +50%, and when you have 100 ships it will cost twice its base cost, an so on.

in an early game when you have enough fingers to count your ships (could depend from species.. :wink: )
how can you say if it his better to have some more old hulls to take battle damages and be killed before the new ships
against the increasing costs to build the new ships
I'm not sure to understand the question, so mind the answer.
Overall, newer hulls/weapons/etc. are always better (efficiency wise: damage, HP, speed, etc. per invested PP) than older.
So answering your question: "never".
If you can build newer ships (or at least better ships for a given purpose), stop producing the older models.
There may be exceptions. For example, if you are a robotic species and you already have many armed robo hulls with the robotic interface (that shield part that gives you more shielding the more ships you have in the stack, but only for robotic species piloted ships with that part on them), you may prefer to keep producing robos (with newer weapons) instead of self-grav. or titanic hulls., because of the numbers. But even in this case, at some point your increasing PP/turn will allow you (and make it better) to have many self-grav than many robos (because of the fleet upkeep and because you can already reach sheer numbers of huge ships for the maximum of 20 shield bonus).

another option, i you have a planet on a shock point where the ennemy will come
you can raise the planetary defense (not so costly for the first steps) and leave no defense ship
let the ennemy be wounded by your defenses then make a quick jump to fall on him the next turn to kill him
so you can kill him with a lower fleet than his
In my experience, once you have not-negligible planetary shields, it is better for your fleet to join the battle from the first turn instead of letting the enemy cripple your planetary defenses. Because while the planet has shields up, they do some cannon-fodder work, but once they have been flatened they will only soak one shot on the first combat round and be useless for the next two.
Only when the battle will be bad for me regardless of the inclusion of my fleet in it, I will let the planet go down (because it will be captured no matter what I do in that turn).

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Re: some playing advice

#12 Post by defaultuser » Tue May 15, 2018 4:34 am

I generally don't research any planetary defenses. The best defense is a good offense, and I'd rather use the research points for other things.

phocas
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Re: some playing advice

#13 Post by phocas » Tue May 15, 2018 6:29 am

Oberlus wrote:
phocas wrote:'m not sure to understand the question, so mind the answer.
Overall, newer hulls/weapons/etc. are always better (efficiency wise: damage, HP, speed, etc. per invested PP) than older.

In my experience, once you have not-negligible planetary shields, it is better for your fleet to join the battle from the first turn instead of letting the enemy cripple your planetary defenses. Because while the planet has shields up, they do some cannon-fodder work,
i agree the new techs are far more cost effective than the oldies. for example a robotcruiser with 2 zortium armer cost 170 PP
when with 2 diamant armor and then a far better hull it cost only 176 PP
it could be fine to scratch old middle/ large.. hulls, when you are building a gravit fleet (if you don't need them heavily on the front...

the question from islandies was about scrapping the old hulls.
my purpose was that in the early game when you have few hulls, finger counts, ( 1-2 midldle and large cruisers with you first robots or asteroids) it could be better to use them in battle, taking damages instead of you new babies) and not thinkng of scraping them


from my new discovered battle report you are fully right about planet defense.
i was thinking about the mines and thought that the planets were attacked only later
but the reports show me that
* the defender can fire first if it was not spotted and tha the attacker can be surprised not firing the first round
* the annemy fire ar the planets and the defender ships then saving damages from the defender ships
* the planet fire at the ennemy and could be as effective a one of you ships with maser tech

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Oberlus
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Re: some playing advice

#14 Post by Oberlus » Tue May 15, 2018 6:53 am

phocas wrote:it could be fine to scratch old middle/ large.. hulls, when you are building a gravit fleet (if you don't need them heavily on the front...

the question from islandies was about scrapping the old hulls.
my purpose was that in the early game when you have few hulls, finger counts, ( 1-2 midldle and large cruisers with you first robots or asteroids) it could be better to use them in battle, taking damages instead of you new babies) and not thinkng of scraping them
Indeed.
When you have few ships, scrapping them is a terrible idea in any way. The extra cost they induce in the next ships you'll build (if not scrapped) is negligibl,e and the loss in PP is huge (how many turns you need to replace the scrapped ships and regain the same fleet strength? No way).
When you have say 300 ships (so the ship 301 will cost 3x its base cost) in robos, self-gravs and titans, it may be good to scrap the robos with older weapons because they are close to useless in battle against late-game shields, and you may already have nice carriers to do the cannon fodder. But most players will just keep them in the fleet and use them as cannon fodder (they will go down faster than the newer models so you are effectively scrapping them AND saving some of your newer ships).

defaultuser wrote:I generally don't research any planetary defenses. The best defense is a good offense, and I'd rather use the research points for other things.
I agree. I do the same when playing focused on production and early military prevalence. However I'm always been more of a Psylon than a Klackon :) so I tend to focus on getting huge RP advantage and in that case I can devote some RPs to planetary defenses (when you have 50 PPs per turn and are getting Adaptive Automation, Neutron Scanner or Plasma Shields, putting some planetary defense techs on top of it may not delay the bigger techs, an so there is no reason to not get them).

Sindarin1
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Re: some playing advice

#15 Post by Sindarin1 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:43 pm

wow, what a successful post. Thank you all for all this discussion. I'm learning a lot.
Oberlus wrote:and you may already have nice carriers to do the cannon fodder.
You mentioned the carriers... Is it useful to get a big hull and try to deploy 8 or 10 drones from 1 ship?

The robotic hull has some predefined fits with them but i usually prefer the robocruiser lzi and the destroyer with the shields...
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