Monsters too strong

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Voker57
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Monsters too strong

#1 Post by Voker57 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:07 pm

Currently, monster nest is very early accessible and randomly placed amazing boon. It (at least jaggernauts and krakens) produces for free 1000 HP monstrocities which simply cannot be countered until quite late in the game. Not sure how to nerf them without making them worthless: maybe cut max HP to 1/5 and make them grow HP very slowly (organic-type)?
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Voker57
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Re: Monsters too strong

#2 Post by Voker57 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:16 pm

Also, probabilistic growth is too uneven: maybe spawn them with max form and cut its stats (not sure if you can make shield slowly grow)
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Gault.Drakkor
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Re: Monsters too strong

#3 Post by Gault.Drakkor » Fri May 18, 2018 2:38 am

I found it kinda subtle/not clear that your topic is about player controlled monster nests.

Anyhow. From personal experience I usually don't get to nests that I find until they have already started spawning.

Rather then nerfing them (they are so-so mid game and require support in the late game).
I would rather a 'brood mother' or 'lethargic elder' defending the nests. If you believe they are so strong, a defender guarding it should slow down acquisition.

The other thing that could be done is to drop/modify the chance to spawn the strongest forms until certain conditions such as:
  • player has to researched tech: 'nurturing eldritch beings for dummies'
  • player has researched plasma/death ray weapons
  • some empire has estimated fleet strength over 9000
  • by some factor of galaxy size

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Oberlus
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Re: Monsters too strong

#4 Post by Oberlus » Fri May 18, 2018 11:41 am

Voker57 wrote:Not sure how to nerf them without making them worthless: maybe cut max HP to 1/5 and make them grow HP very slowly (organic-type)
Two alternative ideas:

- Change the mechanic so that to spawn mosters from a nest you need to build bio-hull line buildings and invest PPs, as if you where producing bio-hull ships. Some PP cost and building requirements should be assigned to each monster(*), that would be a fixed, unmodifiable design. This way you can leave the current monster stats (so that a kraken nest close to your empire is still a problem if you don't get it, but it does not break balance when one player gets one and the other none).

* this would require some balancing work, but I think that checking regular ship designs stats (PP/slot, PP/dmg, PP/HP, etc.) some initial numbers close to the ideal could be figured out. Also, the costs and required turns should/could take into account the expected monster spawning rate of current monster nests to try to mimic that rate, but I think that as long as of each monster nest gets the same requirements (PPs, turns) than a regular ship design with an overall similar strength everything will be fine.

- Building on the previous alternative, do allow for modified monster designs based on the monster hulls (each requiring its corresponding nest in the planet to be able to produce), that can only fit monster-weapons (that may require to have the nest type of the monster(s) that normally carry those weapons, as well as certain techs, new or repurposed, and it may allow "damage improving by tech-upgrades", or leave it as currently, "damage improving per time after spawned"). All this would add some flavour to the game and expand a bit strategic options (just a bit). Also, for extra flavour, it could allow to combine different monster's weapons (if you own both nests) so that you could do, IDK, a juggernaut hull full of kraken "mouths", or whatever.


Gault.Drakkor wrote:Anyhow. From personal experience I usually don't get to nests that I find until they have already started spawning.
I think playing multiplayer as Voker57 may imply a different kind of experience. I always rush to monster nests when playing against AI, and the only chance that enemies have then is to get a nest for monsters stronger than mine. I mean, if I have a kraken nest close to my homeworld, is game over (for the AIs) regardless of any other consideration, and if I get a snowflake nest it will be the same situation unless some AI got kraken/juggernaut nest too. And then it will be an interesting game, but I think against humans (that do not play dumb after turn 150ish) I think it may be overwhelming to the other human players.
Plus the probabilistic spawning/growth rates. I remember a game when I got my first spawned monster in turn fifty something, from a nest outposted in turn 20 (so one moster per 30 turns) while other times I can get 3 monsters in ten turns. The probabilistic distribution may be too open.

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