Species: Nerada

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Dilvish
AI Lead, Programmer
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Re: Species: Nerada

#16 Post by Dilvish » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:20 pm

My recollection is that before we had added "HabitableSize" the recalibration done by it was instead done by "SizeAsDouble", but that the latter no longer does so. I find no other uses of "SizeAsDouble" in current scripting, and am pretty sure that it should not be used anymore for this kind of habitable size calculation.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

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Oberlus
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Re: Species: Nerada

#17 Post by Oberlus » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:32 am

Right, so I'm using HabitableSize.

Maybe I found two lacking definition in the stringtable file (or I failed to copy them when I first made the modifications to add Nerada):

Code: Select all

BLD_COL_NERADA
Nerada Colony

BLD_COL_NERADA_DESC
[[BLD_COL_PART_1]] [[species SP_NERADA]] colony. [[BLD_COL_PART_2]] Nerada colony [[BLD_COL_PART_3]].
Also, is it intended that they can inhabitate gas giants? Currently they can (hostile environment).

Regarding playability, I keep finding them quite OP. For five games with them (all 150 system young 4-arm spiral, 7 AIs, everything high) I've been the fucking overlord, with sky-rocketing PPs and population, and more research than any other player from turn ~40 and onwards (more colonies than anyone else, each giving +2 RP from Nascent AI). If you focus on building standard MD cruisers right from the start you pwn like a badass. And that is for young galaxies full of white and blue stars, otherwise it is just a cakewalk. Once you get your first exobot colony and pump out a few exobot trooper, you start getting homeworlds and make your RPs also skyrocket, and so my NO_RESEARCH species empire is always the most technologically advanced and with a military power that exceeds the sum of the three other strongest empires in the galaxy.

Jaumito
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Re: Species: Nerada

#18 Post by Jaumito » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:13 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:32 am
Right, so I'm using HabitableSize.
Right.
Maybe I found two lacking definition in the stringtable file (or I failed to copy them when I first made the modifications to add Nerada):

Code: Select all

BLD_COL_NERADA
Nerada Colony

BLD_COL_NERADA_DESC
[[BLD_COL_PART_1]] [[species SP_NERADA]] colony. [[BLD_COL_PART_2]] Nerada colony [[BLD_COL_PART_3]].
My fault, it seems I missed that part in the attached code/files.
Also, is it intended that they can inhabitate gas giants? Currently they can (hostile environment).
More like an oversight. I just left it here out of laziness and anyway it takes ages before you can actually set foot on GGs. Plus, I think it fits the species' theme. :lol:
Regarding playability, I keep finding them quite OP. For five games with them (all 150 system young 4-arm spiral, 7 AIs, everything high) I've been the fucking overlord, with sky-rocketing PPs and population, and more research than any other player from turn ~40 and onwards (more colonies than anyone else, each giving +2 RP from Nascent AI). If you focus on building standard MD cruisers right from the start you pwn like a badass. And that is for young galaxies full of white and blue stars, otherwise it is just a cakewalk. Once you get your first exobot colony and pump out a few exobot trooper, you start getting homeworlds and make your RPs also skyrocket, and so my NO_RESEARCH species empire is always the most technologically advanced and with a military power that exceeds the sum of the three other strongest empires in the galaxy.
I've no problem thrashing maniacal AIs with the Nerada (or any other species), my assessment of their strength was based on how they fared in 0.4.7 when AI-controlled. If a nerf is needed, I suggest (in order of preference) -
  1. Give them standard weapons again.
  2. Lose telepathy (although I suspect this could seriously cripple them - would be interesting to try.)
  3. Non-asteroid planets are at best adequate (as originally planned, but in 0.4.7 I stumbled upon a bug where planets could be terraformed ad infinitum without effect - don't know if it still happens in 0.4.8.)
  4. Make GGs unavailable instead of hostile, although as I said above, I don't think it'd be that big of a nerf.
Other suggestions?

Jaumito
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Re: Species: Nerada

#19 Post by Jaumito » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:10 am

Jaumito wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:13 pm
Oberlus wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:32 am
Maybe I found two lacking definition in the stringtable file (or I failed to copy them when I first made the modifications to add Nerada):

Code: Select all

BLD_COL_NERADA
Nerada Colony

BLD_COL_NERADA_DESC
[[BLD_COL_PART_1]] [[species SP_NERADA]] colony. [[BLD_COL_PART_2]] Nerada colony [[BLD_COL_PART_3]].
My fault, it seems I missed that part in the attached code/files.
Argh, just found another missing block in stringtables:

Code: Select all

SCOTOTROPHIC_SPECIES_CLASS
Scototrophic

SCOTOTROPHIC_SPECIES_CLASS_DESC
List of [[encyclopedia SCOTOTROPHIC_SPECIES_TITLE]] species:

Jaumito
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Re: Species: Nerada

#20 Post by Jaumito » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:16 am

I did lots of changes to the Nerada lately:
  • Habitability changed to: asteroids=good, everything else=hostile
  • Can't terraform any longer (NO_TERRAFORM)
  • Population changed from good (GOOD_POPULATION) to average (AVERAGE_POPULATION)
  • Starts on a red star system, if generated orange or brighter (gives 18 starting pop on the HW, would be 6 otherwise)
  • Added good stockpiling (GOOD_STOCKPILE)
  • Pilots changed from great to normal (removed GREAT_WEAPONS)
  • (new) VARIABLE_STEALTH macro: gives planets stealth depending on star type
    • blue star: -40 stealth
    • white star: -20 stealth
    • yellow star: no bonus/malus
    • orange star: +20 stealth
    • red star: +40 stealth
    • neutron star, black hole, none: +60 stealth
  • (new) VARIABLE_SHIP_STEALTH macro: gives ships stealth depending on star type (same as above)
I tried to keep most of the changes into the species file as macro definitions, so if you, e.g., don't want the Nerada to use variable stealth ships, you only have to comment out the macro reference [[VARIABLE_SHIP_STEALTH]]

VARIABLE_SHIP_STEALTH is an experimental feature and probably won't stay (it can be stupidly good in the right circumstances), I just couldn't resist adding it in when I implemented variable planetary stealth.


Additional changes so far:
new definition for ~/stringtables/en.txt

Code: Select all

VARIABLE_STEALTH_DESC
+	Variable Planetary [[metertype METER_STEALTH]], dark systems get a higher bonus 

New species file attached.
SP_NERADA.focs.txt
(8.62 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Jaumito
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Location: Catalonia, France, Europe, Earth, Sol, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Virgo Cluster

Re: Species: Nerada

#21 Post by Jaumito » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:03 am

@Oberius: If you still find the Nerada OP with these changes, try this:
  • change asteroid habitability to Adequate (from Good)
  • (optional) comment out the VARIABLE_SHIP_STEALTH reference as explained above
  • (optional, but recommended if you want at least a 2-digits pop on your HW) change the starting system star to NoStar if Red or brighter - it should look like

    Code: Select all

            EffectsGroup
                scope = Contains Source
                activation = AND [
                    Planet
                    OR [
                        OwnedBy affiliation = AnyEmpire
                        Star type = [BlackHole NoStar]
                    ]
                    HasTag name = "SCOTOTROPHIC"
                    Turn high = 0
                    Star type = [Blue White Yellow Orange Red]
                ]
                effects = SetStarType type = NoStar
    
You should now be able to colonize only red-and-darker asteroids without hab tech. You'll need Planetary Ecology to colonize orange asteroids (at pop 1, initially), but to get onto yellow ones even Symbiotic Biology won't be enough: you'll have to set your HW to growth focus, AND be within supply range (on top of, at least, Planetary Ecology.)

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