Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.
Forum rules
Always mention the exact version of FreeOrion you are testing.

When reporting an issue regarding the AI, if possible provide the relevant AI log file and a save game file that demonstrates the issue.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Oberlus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#1 Post by Oberlus » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:22 am

Playing 0.4.8 RC2
In my current game I screwed it up. I'm Sly, doing pretty well on population, production and research. At the start I saw several far away (5-6 hops away) systems with both gas giants and asteroid belts, so I planned to go first for asteroid hull. I'm turn 80ish and just got Asteroid Reformation. Problem is the two systems with belts, one north and the other south, are now swarmed with armed stacks of two different empires that are doing rather well too. I've already colonised the GGs but I can't built any good stuff. Now I can try different things:
- Planetary stealth and system mines: It's sort of a hack against AIs.
- Cannon fodder: make a puny fleet of laser cruisers and use them to attack right the turn after a big batch of comsats is finished in that system. Another hack.
- Go other hull line to conquer the belts.

So I was trying to figure out what hulls could be best for my situation now, and noticed the Nanorobotic Hull. I've never build one. Ever. It is a bigger robotic hull (+2 external slots, +5 HP, +5 speed, x2 repair rate). But...
(Hull: RP, Res. turns, build cost, build turns, HP, external/internal/core slots)
Robotic: 24, 3, 40, 2, 25, 4/1/0.
Nanorobotic: 800, 8, 50, 2, 30, 6/1/0.
Self-Grav: 500, 5, 60, 5, 100, 6/2/1.

I think research stats are rather unbalanced for Nanorobotic Hull. It makes a great medium-size gunner ship, like a robotic with some extra space for more structure, SR weapons or flaks. But that's it. However you require a huge research investment, greater than the required for the self-grav. hull, which is way better than nano robos (triple structure, +1 internal and +1 core slots, almost same cost).

I only research NanoRobotic when I'm winning and want to spent my surplus research in some more unnecessary stuff, like logistic facilitators (which is another underpowered hull, but I think not as bad as the nanorobotic). If I was ever going to build nanorobos would be just for the heck of it.

I think a good starting point for balance would be to swap the research costs of Nanorobotic Maintenance and Contra Gravitational Maintenance.

Jaumito
Space Kraken
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 3:42 am
Location: Catalonia, France, Europe, Earth, Sol, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Virgo Cluster

Re: Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#2 Post by Jaumito » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:19 pm

Best choice for me is... as troopships. Because of the build cost, and the mere fact they're impervious to mine hits.

User avatar
EricF
Space Dragon
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am

Re: Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#3 Post by EricF » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:00 pm

Nope, never built them either. For all the same reasons you already mentioned.
I assume it is a balance issue that will get looked at eventually.
I use basic robo hulls for troops ships and when things get tough
I use Self Gravitating hulls for troop ships.
Yes, right now I would say it is totally pointless to build them.
IMO, I don't see ANY reason to build any hulls but the robotic line.
(Excepting the Nanorobotic of course).
Too many restrictions on where you can build them limits what pilots you can use.
I used to use Energy hulls alot, but White (or even Blue) stars can be hard to come by.
I used to use Asteroid hulls alot, but when I discovered how much more important
good pilots are as opposed to a certain hull line I stopped.
The whole hull line concepts need to be completely rethought, but that's a lot of work...

RudyVW
Space Krill
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 8:34 am

Re: Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#4 Post by RudyVW » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:30 am

It's a lot of research points to get Nanohull, but you need the research to get the core slot transpatial drive, which is essential for early grav hulls, before you update that with the spinal antimatter cannon.

Sometimes, but by no means always, i'll go down the nano line as an interim on the path to grav hulls, keeping the nano hull as a very effective troop carrier with a high shield in the internal slot.

If the nano had another internal slot to carry fighters as well it would become a very powerful option.

As has been said above, the lines all need a bit of rebalancing, as as soon as you have grav it's worth going for titanic, so the grav becomes obselete very quickly. In my mind, the jump to nano is too big, the jumps from nano to grav and grav to titanic are way too small. In late game play, even on a small map, i end up researching everything, even when dropping research down to a few key planets added to the additional research tech. I'd like to see the later technologies require a hell of a lot more research to achieve.

In addition, the fuel options are a total waste of time, never once, in 4 years of play, ever used them. The same goes for stealth, although i understand that the whole stealth mechanic is due a major review in the not too distant future.

User avatar
Oberlus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#5 Post by Oberlus » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:18 am

RudyVW wrote:It's a lot of research points to get Nanohull, but you need the research to get the core slot transpatial drive, which is essential for early grav hulls, before you update that with the spinal antimatter cannon
I've seldom use the trans-spatial drive: +60 speed and +40 stealth. I'm better of with the way cheaper n-dimensional engine matrix (+40 speed). Having +20 extra lane speed is handy but never essential. And the extra +40 stealth is close to useless at mid game in a self-grav hull (0+40... most empires with neutros scan can see you). And the trans-spatial itself requires another 800 RPs.
RudyVW wrote:nano hull as a very effective troop carrier with a high shield in the internal slot.
Expensive hull with expensive shield shouldn't make for a good troop ship. Shields are one of the most expensive items in the game, so you are effectively turning your Empire into a Bad Offensive species (you much more PPs for the same number of troops).
RudyVW wrote:If the nano had another internal slot to carry fighters as well it would become a very powerful option.
Yeah, it would become almost another self-grav. with less structure and one less internal slot but faster self-repair. Only interesting purpose I see there is for resisting mines as Jaumito pointed out (but against mines I prefer to just not send the troopers until I can conquer the system all at once in a single turn).
RudyVW wrote:the jump to nano is too big, the jumps from nano to grav and grav to titanic are way too small
That's because you should first get self-grav, that requires less research :D
No, seriously, you are right, it's a bit of a mess the research requirements.
RudyVW wrote:the fuel options are a total waste of time, never once, in 4 years of play, ever used them
They can work charms in colonisers for faster earlir expansion.
RudyVW wrote:The same goes for stealth
I disagree. I've made extensive use of stealth parts for scouts, colonisers and warships. Specially for colonizers, when playing stealth distributed empire you MUST have stealth parts to be able to cross behind enemy lines and get some valuable planets without needing to invest on military. Also a bunch of stealth carriers can turn the tides of a match.

User avatar
Vezzra
Release Manager, Design
Posts: 4606
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:56 pm
Location: Sol III

Re: Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#6 Post by Vezzra » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:52 am

Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?
Nope. I've never ever used them for anything. For all the reasons cited.

defaultuser
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: Do you ever use Nanorobotic Hull as a best choice?

#7 Post by defaultuser » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:05 am

I tried many hulls early on, then discarded most for my standard sequence: Robotic->Flux->Self-Grav->Titanic.

I used to go for Solar sometimes late in long games because in the old days you could pack them full of engines and get these hard-hitting speedsters. The changes to eliminate engine-stacking made those not worth the RP and time. Now I just keep upgrading the Titans.

Post Reply