Questions from a new player

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Daybreak
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Questions from a new player

#1 Post by Daybreak » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:35 pm

Hi all

I started playing about 5 days ago, so bear with me if I ask noob questions. I seem to be doing well and picking it up quickly, and even though I have searched here and read the quick guide, I can't seem to find some answers.

1) Can I suggest a new conversation area for new players. My search always returns some very high level conversations I not only mostly do not understand but also seem to be theory or theory/story for new ideas.

My real questions
2) I started terraforming 2 planets, human colonies, when the Terraforming item in production changed to "Never". One was at 100% complete and the other at 12.5% complete. I looked at the planets and they are now Terran. Now this is either a bug, or I don't understand what is happening and would appreciate help.

3) Production: In beginner mode I blitzed the AI's, however in Cautious mode I could not understand why my production would not rise until I discovered Focus, and the problem went away. However I don't understand what increases the total limit of production on each colony.
a) I assume an increasing population would increase the limit.
b) Buildings - I cant seem to find a list of buildings that may increase production limit (or research for that matter) and the pedia does not say anything about it either. For example I think that Solar Orbit and Gas Giant Generators, and Space elevators, may increase the total production limit amount, however a basic orbital ship yard does not. Again only through testing have I ascetained this, and I could be wrong and something else is happening. Any help appreciated.
c) I also assume that some Tech would also help with production, like the increasing levels of industry, but unless I am missing it there does not seem to be anything telling me that.

4) Tech in general
I am struggling with Tech, and I know over tme I will understand it more, but is there anywhere that points to how to unlock certain buildings, for example Orbital Drydock (just an example). The Pedia does not say, unlocked by researching this and that. Most tech like Plasma gun is self evident, but there is much where the path is hidden to me.

Moo1, 2 and 3 is my background, but other than that I am a blank slate.
Any help appreciated

Thank you

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Questions from a new player

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Daybreak wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:35 pm
1) Can I suggest a new conversation area for new players. My search always returns some very high level conversations I not only mostly do not understand but also seem to be theory or theory/story for new ideas.
Do you mean a new subforum for "New Player Questions and Help" or similar?
2) I started terraforming 2 planets, human colonies, when the Terraforming item in production changed to "Never". One was at 100% complete and the other at 12.5% complete. I looked at the planets and they are now Terran. Now this is either a bug, or I don't understand what is happening and would appreciate help.
For these sorts of issues, screenshots of the situation are usually helpful.
However I don't understand what increases the total limit of production on each colony.
Have you hovering the mouse cursor over the resource meters on the planet panels on the sidepanel, and observed the tooltip that lists the effects that contribute to the meter's value?
I am struggling with Tech, and I know over tme I will understand it more, but is there anywhere that points to how to unlock certain buildings, for example Orbital Drydock (just an example). The Pedia does not say, unlocked by researching this and that. Most tech like Plasma gun is self evident, but there is much where the path is hidden to me.
I don't have a screenshot at the momment, but I think the articles for ship parts or buildings will have an "unlocked by" line in their pedia descriptions. Looks like they should based on the code at least... https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... .cpp#L1318

Daybreak
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Re: Questions from a new player

#3 Post by Daybreak » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:50 pm
Do you mean a new subforum for "New Player Questions and Help" or similar?
Yes that would be perfect, an area where only noob questions go. I would have started reading and searching such an area to see if anyone else had asked the same questions. For example I just discovered "My personal strategy guide" under "Play-Testing Feedback" which probably belongs in such a player help area.
For these sorts of issues, screenshots of the situation are usually helpful.
Playing v 0.4.7.1 - images Attached - I also noticed a third one. I also went back to previous saved games and provided details of the planets before terraforming. Games are available to upload if needed.
Have you hovering the mouse cursor over the resource meters on the planet panels on the sidepanel, and observed the tooltip that lists the effects that contribute to the meter's value?
I have now - thank you.
I don't have a screenshot at the momment, but I think the articles for ship parts or buildings will have an "unlocked by" line in their pedia descriptions. Looks like they should based on the code at least... https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... .cpp#L1318
I won't pretend I know too much about the code, but have attached an image of pedia description of Orbital Drydock, which does not show which technology unlocks it. Saying that I have seen others which do. OOPs no I wont - it seems I cant upload any more images for the moment.

Thank you
Attachments
Alnath 1 Pre Terraforming.png
Alnath 1 Pre Terraforming.png (29.49 KiB) Viewed 219 times

Jaumito
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Re: Questions from a new player

#4 Post by Jaumito » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:24 am

Daybreak wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:35 pm
2) I started terraforming 2 planets, human colonies, when the Terraforming item in production changed to "Never". One was at 100% complete and the other at 12.5% complete.
Can happen if you enqueued multiple terraforming (TF) items for the same planet. They then are performed concurrently, which may actually be a good thing if you want the planet terraformed ASAP and have resources (PPs) to spare. However, at most one TF item can be completed per planet per turn: when that happens, all other such items will be grayed out with a "never" completion date, but production will resume next turn.
I looked at the planets and they are now Terran.
That's because you overshot your target (enqueued more TF items than needed for the planet to turn "good"). In that case, you've lost the extra resources for nothing, and you'd better remove those uncompleted items form the queue as you can't Gaiafy a planet as long as there are uncompleted terraforming jobs for that planet (which, since the planet is already "good", will never resume and be completed anyway.)

Next time, pay attention to the planet pane when you enqueue TF items: they'll show up there just like regular buildings, except you can have more than one of those on a single planet. A good rule of thumb is -
  • adequate = 1 TF
  • poor = 2 TF (only 1 if narrow habitability)
  • hostile = 3 TF (only 2 if narrow habitability)
  • no planet requires more than 4 TF to turn "good"
It may not be always optimal if you want the fastest terraforming (you may have to add extra TF items later), but at least you won't waste PPs needlessly this way.
4) Tech in general
I am struggling with Tech, and I know over tme I will understand it more, but is there anywhere that points to how to unlock certain buildings, for example Orbital Drydock (just an example). The Pedia does not say, unlocked by researching this and that. Most tech like Plasma gun is self evident, but there is much where the path is hidden to me.
If there are requirements for a tech or building, they're listed at the end of the relevant Pedia entry, under "Unlocked by Techs". Orbital Drydock has no such requirements (it's available from turn 1), except as the Pedia says, you can only build it at planets that already have a Basic Shipyard.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Questions from a new player

#5 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:17 am

Daybreak wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 pm
I [...] have attached an image of pedia description of Orbital Drydock, which does not show which technology unlocks it. Saying that I have seen others which do.
Orbital Drydock is unlocked at the start of a game, so there is no tech to list that unlocks it.

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... ldings.inf

phocas
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Re: Questions from a new player

#6 Post by phocas » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:14 pm

Hello Daybreak

some times t's not a matter of research tech
there are many mandatory building
and you can not have the new one if the previous are not builded

NB: the same apply for space hull
you can not build some you researched if you don't have some mandatory building
(sometime it can be difficult to understand why you can not do something)

so the orbital drydock is step 2 you can made it only if you build the step 1 shipyard on the same planet


by the way you will see the "never" tag on some building if you have no access to the mandatory resource or tech
it could be if you start building a colony and lost the link to other planets with the same species
it could be if you conquer a new planet and some building was going on but you don't know the relevant tech


general resources like production and research are linked to population, planets owned, and several techs and buildings boosters
(and some specific racial bonus and focus)
by using the mouse on each planet you can see how much it can give and why, with the actual and the max possible value

the strategic guide give you some usefulll hints about the techs choice when starting a new game

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Re: Questions from a new player

#7 Post by phocas » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:22 pm

one more things
on your picture about almath 1
it is only a small and adequate planet so the population will never grow high
your research and production on this planet will stay low what will be the focus with no specific special bonus available

you better choice should be the growing focus to use the probiotic bonus that will raise the population on all you other planets with biological species
(i you don't have another planet with the same probiotic focus)


terraforming a small planet is seldom really usefull and cost a lot of PP
if i'm not mistaking terraforming cost is not linked to the planet size
if rather terraform only the large and huge planets

AndrewW
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Re: Questions from a new player

#8 Post by AndrewW » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:55 pm

Also, if you click on Unavailable under Producible Items then hover the mouse over the item it will show you why you can't build that.

defaultuser
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Re: Questions from a new player

#9 Post by defaultuser » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:17 pm

I still would like it if production could work like research and add any required buildings. If you want a drydock at a system, just add it and the shipyard would get placed in the queue at the same time. The drydock would start when the shipyard was finished.

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Re: Questions from a new player

#10 Post by phocas » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:19 am

good idea, this feature will be nice indeed

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Oberlus
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Re: Questions from a new player

#11 Post by Oberlus » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:16 am

It's indeed a great idea.

Having to wait and be aware for a given building to be finished so that you can queue the next one is boring/demanding/not-rewarding, specially in situations where you need a lot of them (e.g. playing distributed stealth empires).

So, the basic idea for its implementation could be:
- Show as available the buildings which meet the technology and resource requirements (i.e. regardless of the absence of any required building).
- When queueing a building on a planet, queue before it any required building not yet present on that planet.
- The buildings in the queue will not get any PP until the required buildings are finished.

This should not clutter the list of available buildings but save some precious time and attention of the players.

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Re: Questions from a new player

#12 Post by Ophiuchus » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 pm

Should probably open
Oberlus wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:16 am
So, the basic idea for its implementation could be:
- Show as available the buildings which meet the technology and resource requirements (i.e. regardless of the absence of any required building).
- When queueing a building on a planet, queue before it any required building not yet present on that planet.
- The buildings in the queue will not get any PP until the required buildings are finished.

This should not clutter the list of available buildings but save some precious time and attention of the players.
ATM you can use the building requirement to keep the UI clean. If you drop the building requirment and for example you research organic technologies you will always be offered three instead of one buildings cluttering up your screen. I think there are more issues e.g. with reformation processors etc.

The simplest approach would be probably to change the location condition to also accept an enqueued shipyard and up the build time for the orbital drydock from 5 to 9 (building the basic shipyard takes 4 turns).

(another more general approach could be to allow to enqueue items for which the location condition fails but the enqueueLocation succeeds; that item could would be added to the queue, but production would start/proceed not before the prerequisites are fulfilled)
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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Re: Questions from a new player

#13 Post by Dilvish » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:30 am

Ophiuchus wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 pm
The simplest approach would be probably to change the location condition to also accept an enqueued shipyard and up the build time for the orbital drydock from 5 to 9 (building the basic shipyard takes 4 turns).
I agree with that basic idea about accepting the enqueued shipyard. Although I seem to recall that I had proposed it before and the idea was rejected. Perhaps your timing idea would change that vote though; as for timing particulars, I'd suggest that the timing for building the drydock could be tied to whether the shipyard was completed or not, so that if you enqueued it after the shipyard was finished, or just didn't have PP for it until the shipyard was finished, it could be built in 5 turns at that point.

Prereq techs are specified in a way specific to that purpose, which is not the case for prereq buildings, which are instead just mixed in with any other location requirements. I think it would take a great many changes to be able to implement Oberlus' idea.
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Re: Questions from a new player

#14 Post by Jaumito » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:02 am

On a related note, there are quirks with some of the shipyard upgrades that should probably be cleaned up. For instance, at the moment you can build orbital drydocks and advanced engineering bays (which supposedly are a drydock upgrade) concurrently, but nothing prevents you to pause production on the drydock until the bay is completed. So, if you want to build energy or organic hulls with trans-spatial drives somewhere, you can actually dispense with a drydock here, despite the (supposed) requirement. I don't think this is intended.

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Re: Questions from a new player

#15 Post by Oberlus » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 pm

Ophiuchus wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 pm
ATM you can use the building requirement to keep the UI clean. If you drop the building requirment and for example you research organic technologies you will always be offered three instead of one buildings cluttering up your screen. I think there are more issues e.g. with reformation processors etc.
When I can build last tier shipyard buildings (asteroid reformation, xenosomething, etc.) I already have many available buildings like industrial center, solar solar orbital generator, enclave of the void and the such, around 15 buildings. This means I already have to scroll to look for the basic shipyard and the rest of required shipyards with current implementation. So increasing this by 2 or 3 extra buildings seems no burden to me. What is a burden is to have to manually queue each required building (as opposed as clicking on the last one you want and automatically adding all the prefequisites).

Ophiuchus wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 pm
The simplest approach would be probably to change the location condition to also accept an enqueued shipyard and up the build time for the orbital drydock from 5 to 9 (building the basic shipyard takes 4 turns).
This could work, but will also require many changes for FOCS and/or other code to work out.
Ophiuchus wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 pm
another more general approach could be to allow to enqueue items for which the location condition fails but the enqueueLocation succeeds; that item could would be added to the queue, but production would start/proceed not before the prerequisites are fulfilled
That's exactly what I was trying to suggest in my previous post. But Dilvish pointed out this would require many changes in many files or something? I really don't know how/what/where is implemented that an already queued building that does not fulfil the requirements won't get any PP invested on it, but if that is independent of the FOCS files, then this suggestion could be easy to implement (regardless of the many FOCS files that would require changes, easy ones I think).

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