Big question: remove fuel parts?

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

Moderators: Oberlus, Oberlus

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Big question: remove fuel parts?

#1 Post by Oberlus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:58 am

Multi-players, I summon you. Single-players too, but since I am one of you, I need you less.

Do you ever use fuel parts for a reason different than "I have this spare internal slot and nothing useful to put on it appart from this tank"?
Is there any reason to mount a fuel part appart from enlarging range of colonisers early game in some annoying starting positions?

If nobody answers "yes" to any of these two questions, nor has any objection, I suggest the following:
- Remove fuel parts from game except the collector part (the only external-slot fuel part).
- Keep the fuel techs effects of increasing base range of hulls.
- Add +1 fuel to certain hulls (some with stealth capabilities, some without) that will be the best choice for long range colonisation.

Keep or not the zero-point fuel part? I never use it, never need it. And I think that even if I could need it, it is a bit OP (regarding fuel), because it completely overrides the need of resupply (virtually removes the fuel-restricted range). So I think we can remove it.

If we keep any or all the fuel parts (and maybe that's for the best), I would make standard fuel tank "Basic"; Ramscoop... Cybertec and an organic version for Biotec, one better than the other; Zero-point: Energy; and a pair of techs for +1 fuel per hull for Mech.

o01eg
Programmer
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:46 am

Re: Big question: remove fuel parts?

#2 Post by o01eg » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 am

It could be used for stealth scouts in the enemy rear.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-8.2, boost-1.65.0
Ubuntu Server 18.04 x64, gcc-7.3, boost-1.65.1
Welcome to multiplayer server at freeorion-test.dedyn.io.Version 0.4.8
Donates are welcome: BTC:14XLekD9ifwqLtZX4iteepvbLQNYVG87zK

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 749
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Big question: remove fuel parts?

#3 Post by Ophiuchus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:40 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:58 am
.... Single-players too, but since I am one of you, I need you less.

Do you ever use fuel parts for a reason different than "I have this spare internal slot and nothing useful to put on it appart from this tank"?
Is there any reason to mount a fuel part appart from enlarging range of colonisers early game in some annoying starting positions?
If you doubt the usefulness of a good amount of fuel play a game of aggressive Fulver :)

The main problem is for me that hull/fuel tech is never advanced enough when i need it.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Big question: remove fuel parts?

#4 Post by Oberlus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:44 pm

Then that's it. It all will stay.

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 749
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Big question: remove fuel parts?

#5 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:59 am

Some thoughts, fuel boost is great, having fuel parts means that certain hulls cant benefit (because you need a slot), fuel part upgrades could be refinements of a basic fuel tech (so you save some tech slots in the UI).

I also never used zero point fuel part. For deep space scouts and colonization you probably need stealth as well. So besides the high RP cost the most reachable hull for it would be Self-Grav. So very rarely i research anti grav fuel (clocks in at ~650RP); zero point fuel needs some extra 3300RP to reach after that.

How about a Flux Core hull with a core slot only?
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

User avatar
Vezzra
Release Manager, Design
Posts: 4856
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:56 pm
Location: Sol III

Re: Big question: remove fuel parts?

#6 Post by Vezzra » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:30 pm

o01eg wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 am
It could be used for stealth scouts in the enemy rear.
This.

That said, I think the actual problem here is the current supply ranges. It's too easy to get large supply ranges soon enough so the fuel techs can't keep up. Once you get to the more advanced fuel parts, your supply range usually is already at a level where you won't need large amounts of extra fuel.

I think one approach to make both the fuel and the supply range mechanics/techs more interesting would be to depart from the discrete number of jumps stats. Instead of measuring fuel and supply range in number of jumps, measure it in actual distance. Allows for much more nuanced improvement, and length of starlanes would become more important. Starlane speed of ships works the same way, so it would also be more consistent with that.

Post Reply