Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

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Oberlus
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Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#1 Post by Oberlus » Mon May 13, 2019 8:40 pm

Proposal for joint system for colony conquest through military invasion (the system we already have), cultural/economic influence (new conquest mechanic: non-violent conquest through propaganda and good actions with respect the influenced species' values) or espionage operations (new conquest mechanic: infiltration and subversion of the local government, not necessarily with the support of the people).

Together with destruction of a colony (no conquest), we would have four ways of stealing enemies' space. And with the technological and diplomatic victory, that makes up for six different victory strategies (from more violent to less, mind the names): destruction, invasion, government subversion, influence conquest, diplomacy and transcendence.
Destruction and invasion would be the ones that cares less about multispecies/diplomacy/opinion/values/relationships/etc. and that can focus more freely on war action, and the influence conquest and diplomacy the ones that should care more on species-empire and empire-empire relationships. But most probably most games will require a bit of most strategies.

This was for a little context. The rest of the post is aimed at developing the core mechanics for colony-empire relationships (allegiance, stability, ...) and its relation to the three forms of foreign colony acquisition.


POPULATION STABILITY & ALLEGIANCE
  • Stability (happiness, well-being): a colony meter to capture the disposition of the population to work for the ruler empire.
    Stability below a certain threshold (security threshold?) will imply reduction of the pop-based RPI production.
    Causes of low (target) stability: bad opinion on the ruler (people can do strikes or rebel out), lack of resources (starving and dead people works less) or recent attacks (devastation has its issues).
    Under no other effects, current stability changes 1 point per turn towards target stability. Techs, buildings and policies can affect this as well as the target stability and the security threshold.
  • Allegiance: a colony composite meter, composed of the allegiances to each empire and native/independent, summing in total 1 (100%).
    Most of the time it will be own empire=1, rest=0. Can be shown as a bar with one coloured segment for each faction (empires' colours, white for native/independent) and length of each segment proportional to the allegiance of each empire. The bar border could change colour to highlight important states, like red for own colonies with own allegiance too low, and blue for foreign colonies with good allegiance to our empire. Examples assuming you are empire 1.
    - [1111111000]: 70% empire 1 (current ruler), 30% native.
    - [3333331111]: 60% empire 3 (current ruler), 40% empire 1, blue/flashing border to signal the opportunity to subvert/influence this colony.
    - [1111222222]: 40% empire 1 (current ruler), 60% empire 2, red/flashing border to signal the dangerous allegiance situation.
    The actions of a empire that are know to a given colony will affect their allegiance depending on the species values. Among this actions we could include policies, buildings and techs (as well as actual actions like breaking or signing a peace treaty).
    Getting (or losing) allegiance on a colony means stealing (or giving) some from the other allegiances in the colony, proportional to current allegiances. E.g. if initial values are 70% Emp. 1 and 30% Emp. 2, and Emp. 3 gets 10% for itself, new allegiances are 63%, 27% and 10% respectively. If several allegiance effects coincide at the same turn, the increases are calculated all from the initial values. E.g. same initial values, Emp. 3 gets 10% and Emp 2 gets 20%, new allegiances are 43%, 47% and 10%. Arguably, the native/independent faction would have a minimum value (good actions from empires can't steal from native allegiance when its value is at the minimum), so that it can't disapear and hence can grow strong when all influencing empires are doing bad actions.

COLONY STATUS

Depending on policies and techs unlocked and the species traits, an empire could have different social and government structures. This could be represented by the status of the colony:
  • Free colony: the colony has the same rights within the empire than the capital.
    Local government keeps full power over its internal affairs (military, political and media). The population in the colony is free to do what they want. Free colonies have a pop-based influence bonus tied to high stability and allegiance to the empire.
    All free colonies within an empire cooperate among them willingly, and can leave the empire if their allegiance (for whatever reason) drops too much, although their status of free colony gives a boost to allegiance.
    Local military and political parties (i.e. the portion of population that exerts the actual power in the colony) will always share the same allegiances than the general population, because there is no clear distinction among ruling class and the rest.
    In game mechanics, all this means free colonies' allegiances will be affected by the actions of empires in full extent (so worse to avoid external influence and harder to go against its values), and will themselves affect more the opinions of neighbours (stronger propagation of their opinions, so better to exert influence on others when they like their empire).
    Free colonies with mid stability will force its planetary focus to the preferred one (unless recently attacked, which will force defence focus) and will refrain from accepting influence or production projects that go against their values (note: they will accept the imperial will if they have high enough stability). With low stability they will refuse to work. Their security threshold will be relatively high.
    In case of allegiance shift the colony will join the new empire without requiring a violent rebellion, unless stability is low and this is a warlike species. In that case a civil war will ensue. Usually, stability will be low only if there are subversion projects active in the colony.
  • Vassal colony: the ruling empire treats this colony (its local government, its population) as a vassal.
    The local government keeps most power regarding internal affairs, but does not have full access to military, political and media power.
    Its population is relatively free, although with limited rights within the empire (second class citizens).
    In case of allegiance shift, a civil war will ensue.
    Vassal colonies will be less stable than free colonies (they don't like being second class) but will have the chance to suppress any rebellion automatically if there are enough defensive forces loyal to the empire (which potential boosts from policies, buildings, etc.).
  • Slave colony: the ruling empire treats this colony as source of resources and its population as right-less assets of the empire.
    The rulers provide for the populations basic needs but keep them away from any form of military, political or media power, which have no means to express their discontent or get reliable information. Slave colonies have a pop-based bonus for production and a pop-based malus for influence and research.
    Allegiance can't be high except under special policies like keeping population under drugs influence.
    Also, the actions of the empire have a lesser impact on the allegiance of the slaves, and slave worlds are harder to subvert or influence due to their lack of access to media and information and their lack of military mediums.
    In case of allegiance shift, a rebellion will ensue.
This pretends to be a rather simple scheme to represent unitary, federal and anarchic governments (as per structure of power) as well as autocratic, oligarchic and democratic governments (as per source of power), depending on the combination of colony statuses.
An imperial (unitary autocracy) government would have all colonies as vassal or slave. Feudal (unitary oligarchy) would have some free colonies besides the capital. An egalitarian anarchy would have all free worlds.
But don't get confused, we don't care about actual representation of forms of governments, we just want different gameplay styles in FreeOrion. So this only serves the purpose to bring in some versatility and interest to the influence/opinions/values game. Now we could have a Trith empire that enslaves all species around them (slave colonies would not cause xenophobia on nearby Trith).


TYPES OF REVOLT
  • Civil war: two factions of the planetary forces, each backed up by a portion of the population, fight for the control of the planet.
    The size of each faction will be proportional to their allegiances in the planet.
    Size of each faction might be affected by policies, buildings and techs.
    If the foreign (or native) faction prevails, the colony will change its allegiance to the foreign empire (or become native).
    The civil war will lower population and infrastructure, more or less depending on policies, buildings and techs and the relative strengths of the faction in the fight.
    Civil wars will occur in non-pacifist vassal colonies and sometimes in warlike free colonies.
  • Rebellion: the population of the colony fights against the planetary forces.
    The relative strength of the revolutionaries will depend on allegiance to the ruling empire, policies, buildings and techs, and maybe the effect from subversion/incite revolt projects.
    If the rebellion succeeds, the colony will join the empire with greatest allegiance (or become native).
    In non-pacifist colonies, the rebellion will lower population and infrastructure, more or less depending on policies, buildings and techs and the relative strengths of the faction in the fight, but usually less than a civil war.
    Rebellions will occur in slave colonies or in vassal colonies with oppression policies in place that restrain local population from military power.

TYPES OF COLONY CONQUEST/ACQUISITION

Military conquest
  1. An armed force clears out any defensive forces and flatens planetary shields and defenses.
  2. Ground troops invade the planet and fight deffensive troops. Invasion succeeds if attackers>defenders.
  3. The colony becomes ruled by the invading empire, which assigns an statute (free, vassal or slave). For standard species, its current opinion of the empire modified by policies and techs active in the invading and invaded empire determines the stability of the colony withing the invading empire. If it is too low after invasion, the colony will stay in rebellion for a while until the citizens are assimilated into their new condition (that can be slave, vassal or free).
Espionage conquest (government subversion)
  1. The subverting empire initiates an influence-fueled, hidden project (1 turns to complete, max M IPs per turn, N iterations) targetted at the colony.
    Every time an iteration is completed (M IPs invested), allegiance to owner and stability of the target colony decreases by X points, and allegiance to subverting empire increases by Y points (X>Y), both modified by species traits and involved empires' policies and techs.
  2. The subverted empire will receive a sitrep when allegiance or stability gets close to security thresholds, or sooner depending on certain policies or techs, and a counter-espionage project can be started in the colony (equal to subversion project with opposite effects, up stability and own allegiance).
  3. If the stability gets below security threshold, a civil war begins, the planetary defenses are divided into two factions depending on allegiance, and the winner gets to rule the colony.
Influence conquest (Cultural-Economic conquest)
  1. The influencing empire will spend IPs into advertising their will good towards other colonies, through policies or empire-wide propaganda projects (TBD).
    This will enable the empire's actions to cause (or to boost, TBD) possitive effects on foreign colonies' opinon based on the species values. Otherwise the foreign colonies won't know about it and will never grow allegiance to alien empires.
    A special species trait (such as telepathy) or certain policies or building effects (e.g. free open communications to boost owns research) will allow the species to be influenced by empires that are not actively influencing them. Other special traits, buildings or policies will make a species immune or very hard to external influence.
  2. A colony whose allegiance grows bigger (big enough) to a foreign empire than to its own, will desert to that empire.
    Depending on special buildings or policies (e.g. enslaved world, totalitarianism, etc.) this will trigger a civil war or a rebellion, or directly become a stable colony of the influencing empire.
____

Work in progress. I will edit this.
Feel free to post anything related to what I'm writing here.
Please, keep your contributions to the subject of developing (or not) the specific mechanics described above:
  • Why would it work or not?
  • How could it be improved or what could be done instead?
  • Assuming it would work out well, do you think the gameplay with this proposal would be simple enough to grasp (KISS)?
  • If you are a programmer, do you think implementation is feasible (FreeOrion standards)?
For general discussion about influence, diplomacy, slaves, victory conditions, etc. please use an older thread or open a new one.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#2 Post by Krikkitone » Tue May 14, 2019 12:28 am

I think it would work, but I think it could be simplified

Free Colonies:
Stability dependent on allegiance & empire doing what colony wants
more vulnerable to outside influence

Slave:
Stabillity dependent on Military force (relatively less dependent on Allegiance/ doing what colony wants)
less vulnerable to cultural influence (and probably spy as well)

I don't really see the need for a separate Vassal category (especially as you talk about "oppressive" vassal colonies)

The main difference between "Civl War" and "Rebellion" is if planetary forces join the Rebels.

So I would combine that into one

"Rebellion"... Rebel forces are generated, in certain conditions some of your planetary forces become Rebels


So to simplify the model

1. Colonies are either Free or Slave (or Free or Vassal if we decide Slave sounds too oppressive by default)... different "Policies"/Techs etc. would add different bonuses/penalties that affect colonies of one specific type
2. Allegiance is based on "Doing what a colony you own wants.. ie what species wants and good for this Colony-status/etc."
3. Allegiance (and Techs/Policies including 'Security' type ones) affects Stability
4. If Stability falls too low there is a "Rebellion" [which can result in anywhere from 0% of the planetary forces defecting..ie people v. troops to 100% of the planetary forces defecting...ie a Free Colony secedes]...% planetary defecting would depend both on the status of the Colony as well as "Policies"/Techs, Allegiance, and Foreign Involvement

Policies/Techs etc. determine if you are kind/oppressive to your Slaves and how "Free" your "Free Colonies" really are.

So to defend against losing your world you need both Strong Troops AND High Allegiance on the world. (Allegiance is hard to eliminate/change, Troops are Easy)

I think that would work well.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#3 Post by labgnome » Sat May 18, 2019 8:14 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:40 pm
Stability (happiness, well-being): a colony meter to capture the disposition of the population to work for the ruler empire.
Stability below a certain threshold (security threshold?) will imply reduction of the pop-based RPI production.
Causes of low (target) stability: bad opinion on the ruler (people can do strikes or rebel out), lack of resources (starving and dead people works less) or recent attacks (devastation has its issues).
Under no other effects, current stability changes 1 point per turn towards target stability. Techs, buildings and policies can affect this as well as the target stability and the security threshold.
This makes me lean more towards liking the idea of stability replacing happiness. I'd personally keep the security/stability threshold constant. I'd also go with a 0-100 value for stability, with 50 as the stability threshold, as a suggestion. I think that would be easy to follow and understand for players.
Allegiance: a colony composite meter, composed of the allegiances to each empire and native/independent, summing in total 1 (100%).
Most of the time it will be own empire=1, rest=0. Can be shown as a bar with one coloured segment for each faction (empires' colours, white for native/independent) and length of each segment proportional to the allegiance of each empire. The bar border could change colour to highlight important states, like red for own colonies with own allegiance too low, and blue for foreign colonies with good allegiance to our empire. Examples assuming you are empire 1.
- [1111111000]: 70% empire 1 (current ruler), 30% native.
- [3333331111]: 60% empire 3 (current ruler), 40% empire 1, blue/flashing border to signal the opportunity to subvert/influence this colony.
- [1111222222]: 40% empire 1 (current ruler), 60% empire 2, red/flashing border to signal the dangerous allegiance situation.
The actions of a empire that are know to a given colony will affect their allegiance depending on the species values. Among this actions we could include policies, buildings and techs (as well as actual actions like breaking or signing a peace treaty).
Getting (or losing) allegiance on a colony means stealing (or giving) some from the other allegiances in the colony, proportional to current allegiances. E.g. if initial values are 70% Emp. 1 and 30% Emp. 2, and Emp. 3 gets 10% for itself, new allegiances are 63%, 27% and 10% respectively. If several allegiance effects coincide at the same turn, the increases are calculated all from the initial values. E.g. same initial values, Emp. 3 gets 10% and Emp 2 gets 20%, new allegiances are 43%, 47% and 10%. Arguably, the native/independent faction would have a minimum value (good actions from empires can't steal from native allegiance when its value is at the minimum), so that it can't disapear and hence can grow strong when all influencing empires are doing bad actions.
I would prefer using an opinion system for the mechanic, over what you have presented here. Namely I would rather each subject (weather we are calculating this based on planet or species) gets an independent opinion of each empire. I think this solves some potential problems that your system might create. Namely I can see your system creating unnecessary conflict between allies, especially if they have similar policies (or other factors that would contribute to allegiance) or create a situation where no one can claim a planet because it has too many allegiances and none are over 50%. I think having an opinion system, wherein you can have a high opinion of multiple empire's at once would work better.
Depending on policies and techs unlocked and the species traits, an empire could have different social and government structures. This could be represented by the status of the colony:
I'd go for a simpler two designation system for colonies, with my vote being for Free Colony (or Member Colony) and Vassal Colony. I'd make slave colonies a special designation, that works like concentration camps.
This pretends to be a rather simple scheme to represent unitary, federal and anarchic governments (as per structure of power) as well as autocratic, oligarchic and democratic governments (as per source of power), depending on the combination of colony statuses.
An imperial (unitary autocracy) government would have all colonies as vassal or slave. Feudal (unitary oligarchy) would have some free colonies besides the capital. An egalitarian anarchy would have all free worlds.
But don't get confused, we don't care about actual representation of forms of governments, we just want different gameplay styles in FreeOrion. So this only serves the purpose to bring in some versatility and interest to the influence/opinions/values game. Now we could have a Trith empire that enslaves all species around them (slave colonies would not cause xenophobia on nearby Trith).
So this gets me thinking about what kinds of governments you could have with Free/Member vs. Vassal planets. I see five possible types, which could be different families of governments, that we could tie to different technological themes.

You could have the capitol as the only Member and all others as Vassals. Totalitarian Governments.
You could have all homeworlds as Members and all colonies as Vassals. Feudal(?) Governments.
You could have all planets of the imperial species planets as Members and all other species as Vassals. Supremacy(?) Governments?
You could have all telepathic species planets as Members and all others as Vassals. Gestalt Governments.
You could have all planets as Members and no Vassals. Democratic Governments.

If we have early, mid, and late game governments this would bring the number of governments to 15, which I don't know if that's too many or not.
TYPES OF REVOLT
I'd also have just one type of revolt for simplicity's sake. I think it could be too difficult to tell the two apart functionally for players, but that may just be me.
Espionage conquest (government subversion)
Currently the three types of influence projects have a nice distinction of espionage being about getting/hiding/stealing information, terror being about disrupting/destroying and propaganda being about colony control/acquisition. While the idea sounds interesting I'd rather keep the distinction as it stands for the sake of simplicity and understandability. I also think it might be hard to tell one influence project way to annex a planet from another, especially since we don't actually distinguish between planets populations and their leadership.
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#4 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue May 21, 2019 9:43 am

Oberlus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:40 pm
TYPES OF REVOLT
..
Thinking about my region-based proposal I had two insights, maybe you can comment.

While rebellion is often mentioned in threads I could not find proposed mechanics which explain how this actually works. I found only rebels but more as form of resistance after a colony changes the owner.

Second, what do you think of changing "Stability" to "Instability" in your proposal? IMO this matches better the way meters work in FO currently (usually starting with zero on newly founded colonies). For my regional approach it also provides a way to add up instability from multiple systems.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#5 Post by Krikkitone » Tue May 21, 2019 10:43 am

For new Colonies starting at 0, i would either

1. Make stability meter go 100 to -100 (rebel units geerated at negative stability)
OR
2. Colonies start at 50 (or whatever neutral stability is)

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#6 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue May 21, 2019 12:43 pm

Krikkitone wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:43 am
For new Colonies starting at 0, i would either

1. Make stability meter go 100 to -100 (rebel units geerated at negative stability)
OR
2. Colonies start at 50 (or whatever neutral stability is)
Something like -100 to 100 does not exist anywhere in the game. I would hate negative numbers to show up as a value. Also 50 and 100 seem arbitrary.

I imagine colonists as highly motivated well trained volunteers. I think fresh colonies should have maximum value. (Although you could argue these are prisoners forced to colonize).

I also feel we do not need a measure for "more-than-stable"; meaning it is OK to say 0 instability means highest possible stability.

Exactly for such reasons I was talking about using Instability (where a zero instability is a good value), not Stability.
Last edited by Ophiuchus on Tue May 21, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#7 Post by Krikkitone » Tue May 21, 2019 12:47 pm

An alternative is to have a double meter
(ie when Stability 0-100, colored green, is at 0, the meter displays Instability 0-100, colored red)
so effectively its 100 to -100. but always displayed as 0-100

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#8 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue May 21, 2019 2:38 pm

Krikkitone wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:47 pm
An alternative is to have a double meter
(ie when Stability 0-100, colored green, is at 0, the meter displays Instability 0-100, colored red)
so effectively its 100 to -100. but always displayed as 0-100
IMO this alternative using only positive values is better than the other two you proposed. But why do you think it is necessary to have a range of "stable" values?

For me having an instability potential instead of an indicator of in-/stability is enough. E.g. a rebellion could be more powerful if the instability potential is higher; suppression (e.g. by military dictatorship) could work by not triggering rebellions on low potentials. So such suppressed rebellions would happen later but would be more powerful/more likely to succeed.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#9 Post by Krikkitone » Tue May 21, 2019 3:52 pm

The idea is different degrees of resistance to insecurity inducing events.

There should be a range with a threshold in the middlish. One side prevents problems, the other side creates problems (rebels) the farther it is away from the threshold.

A higher "stability" rating (good side of threshold) is like more defensive troops, its harder to cause problems here.

The way I would have dictatorial suppression work is
troops generate stability
but if stability gets low enough to generate rebels, troops are killed, reducing stability so more rebels are generated next turn (killing more troops, etc.)

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#10 Post by Oberlus » Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am

Ophiuchus wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:43 am
While rebellion is often mentioned in threads I could not find proposed mechanics which explain how this actually works. I found only rebels but more as form of resistance after a colony changes the owner.
I think for now (i.e. not until FO 1.0 is out) we could not simulate actual rebels and let it be abstracted within the stability meter (that is, people rebelling causes low stability).
Second, what do you think of changing "Stability" to "Instability" in your proposal? IMO this matches better the way meters work in FO currently (usually starting with zero on newly founded colonies). For my regional approach it also provides a way to add up instability from multiple systems.
I now think my proposal is crap. Maybe some good ideas (if they weren't mentioned before in some post I haven't read).
About the Instability, I don't like it. All meters in FO are "positive", high values means something good (production, troops, population, infrasteructure... current happiness), and I think there is no reason to introduce one that works the other way around. But you do what you think is best, and once you're finished we'll see how well it fits.
Caveat: that's what I think for now. I'm working in a proposal using only colony stability, empire alignments, species values and species opinions on empires (based on their values and the empire alignments as well as recent events), without colony-empire opinions. Maybe when I'm more into it I discover that "stability" has its problems and "instability" could make more sense.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#11 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am

Oberlus wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am
Ophiuchus wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:43 am
While rebellion is often mentioned in threads I could not find proposed mechanics which explain how this actually works. I found only rebels but more as form of resistance after a colony changes the owner.
I think for now (i.e. not until FO 1.0 is out) we could not simulate actual rebels and let it be abstracted within the stability meter (that is, people rebelling causes low stability).
I hope we will never try to "simulate" rebels. I was asking for your opinion what a low stability leading to rebellion means in game terms. One result of low stability was low productivity as far as i got it in your proposal
Oberlus wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am
I now think my proposal is crap.
Uh. What is your reasoning for thinking it is "crap"? I originally intended to comment on technical feasibility just did not find the time. So I better wait for your next proposal I guess.
Oberlus wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am
About the Instability, I don't like it. All meters in FO are "positive", high values means something good (production, troops, population, infrasteructure... current happiness), and I think there is no reason to introduce one that works the other way around.
Fair enough. That "surprising use of values" is definitely a con I will weigh against the options.
Oberlus wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am
I'm working in a proposal using only colony stability, empire alignments, species values and species opinions on empires (based on their values and the empire alignments as well as recent events), without colony-empire opinions.
Looking forward to it.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#12 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu May 23, 2019 8:45 am

Krikkitone wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:52 pm
The way I would have dictatorial suppression work is
troops generate stability
but if stability gets low enough to generate rebels, troops are killed, reducing stability so more rebels are generated next turn (killing more troops, etc.)
Maybe only if implementing a "Troops generate stability" policy? Sounds fine. Maybe can be extended by an "Imperial Garrison Troops" policy which gives options to choose a species to do the garrison on all planets and is only available if you have enough population of that species (maybe a third of imperial population) or put planets of that species to defense focus. That would use the species modifier from the imperial troop species instead of the local one.

Also I like the negative feedback loop in your idea.

I was thinking more about using ships as a suppression mechanism. But maybe that is more hassle than its worth.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#13 Post by Krikkitone » Thu May 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:45 am
Krikkitone wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:52 pm
The way I would have dictatorial suppression work is
troops generate stability
but if stability gets low enough to generate rebels, troops are killed, reducing stability so more rebels are generated next turn (killing more troops, etc.)
Maybe only if implementing a "Troops generate stability" policy? Sounds fine. Maybe can be extended by an "Imperial Garrison Troops" policy which gives options to choose a species to do the garrison on all planets and is only available if you have enough population of that species (maybe a third of imperial population) or put planets of that species to defense focus. That would use the species modifier from the imperial troop species instead of the local one.

Also I like the negative feedback loop in your idea.

I was thinking more about using ships as a suppression mechanism. But maybe that is more hassle than its worth.
Yeah Troops (and Ships) would only give stability under certain policies.... which might lower overall stability (ie -10 Stability on Vassal worlds, +0.5 Stability per Friendly Troop Strength on Vassal worlds)
[oh and it would be a positive feedback loop... ie destabilizing, negative feedback loops stabilize]

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Oberlus
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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#14 Post by Oberlus » Thu May 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am
I was asking for your opinion what a low stability leading to rebellion means in game terms. One result of low stability was low productivity as far as i got it in your proposal
Ah, :D
Yes, I think making the lower ranks of stability cause some RPI output penalty is good for gameplay, as maybe also some RPI bonus for the higher ranks. Rebels would be abstracted in that RPI penalty. Complete rebellion (desertion from the empire) at zero stability, provided several turn are required to get to zero from any starting situation and under any kind of attack so that the affected player has always means to avoid the desertion.
Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am
Uh. What is your reasoning for thinking it is "crap"?
:D
After reading BigJoe5 system I realised I was contributing very little. Also, I've come to understand Vezzra's position on the colony-empire opinion thingy. Even BigJoe5's proposal is too complex for pre-1.0 FO.
Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am
I originally intended to comment on technical feasibility just did not find the time. So I better wait for your next proposal I guess.
Feel free to talk about anything in this proposal too. I'm always slowlearning :).

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Krikkitone
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Re: Types of conquest. Stability&Allegiance. Colony status

#15 Post by Krikkitone » Thu May 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:11 pm
Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am
I was asking for your opinion what a low stability leading to rebellion means in game terms. One result of low stability was low productivity as far as i got it in your proposal
Ah, :D
Yes, I think making the lower ranks of stability cause some RPI output penalty is good for gameplay, as maybe also some RPI bonus for the higher ranks. Rebels would be abstracted in that RPI penalty. Complete rebellion (desertion from the empire) at zero stability, provided several turn are required to get to zero from any starting situation and under any kind of attack so that the affected player has always means to avoid the desertion.
Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am
Uh. What is your reasoning for thinking it is "crap"?
:D
After reading BigJoe5 system I realised I was contributing very little. Also, I've come to understand Vezzra's position on the colony-empire opinion thingy. Even BigJoe5's proposal is too complex for pre-1.0 FO.
Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:34 am
I originally intended to comment on technical feasibility just did not find the time. So I better wait for your next proposal I guess.
Feel free to talk about anything in this proposal too. I'm always slowlearning :).
I think the idea of low stability->Rebellion is under low stability rebel troops are generated each turn, and they "invade" the planet like any other troops... if they kill off all the defenders they win. (hence why I like 100 to -100, at negative values the rebels generated per turn = the "instability")

At low/high Stability there should probably be some economic penalties, but they should be small. Having Shipyards, Garrison buildup, colonization from that world, etc. not work below a certain stability level is an idea as well.

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