Thoughtful development, Turns 2..13

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Oberlus
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Re: Thoughtful development, Turns 2..12

#91 Post by Oberlus » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:47 am

defaultuser wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:06 am
<grammar grump>

That should be "fewer screenshots".

</grammar grump>
Thanks! :)

Uriuk
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Re: Thoughtful development, Turns 2..12

#92 Post by Uriuk » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:44 am

Oberlus wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:18 pm
We want more excels and less screenshots!
1) You mean "more spreadsheets". I never promoted proprietary software here, nor use it in this thread/forum/gaming activity.
Libre Office Calc is my spreadsheet software.
2) Some of you told that they may provide input to this thread. It's very good! I am waiting YOUR spreadsheets. For now you always say only common words. On my study courses we was told that there is a difference between European and Asian management styles, and one aspect is that Europeans prefer measurable things and numbers for making decisions. But it this thread I see the exact opposite.

Uriuk
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Turn 13

#93 Post by Uriuk » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:58 am

At this turn Automated History Analyzer was completed. That mean achieving the first development goal, and change in economics (in proportion between costs of production and research).
I didn't make my mind about how to mirror that economic shift in my calculations yet.

Also second planet with "Ugmors" was discovered, and a "Snowflake nest"
turn_13.gif
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Re: Thoughtful development, Turns 2..12

#94 Post by Oberlus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:36 am

Uriuk wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:44 am
1) You mean "more spreadsheets". I never promoted proprietary software here, nor use it in this thread/forum/gaming activity.
Libre Office Calc is my spreadsheet software.
2) Some of you told that they may provide input to this thread. It's very good! I am waiting YOUR spreadsheets. For now you always say only common words. On my study courses we was told that there is a difference between European and Asian management styles, and one aspect is that Europeans prefer measurable things and numbers for making decisions. But it this thread I see the exact opposite.
1) YES! We have no bananas today.
2) Who are they really?
3) No way you're asian! {hug}
4) Europeans, (north&south) americans, asians, africans...
5) We have a saying in Spanish that rhymes with "Cinco".

Uriuk
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Re: Thoughtful development, Turns 2..13

#95 Post by Uriuk » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:39 am

Also I have converted the savefile into XML-format (via a game options setting).

My question is:
it is possible to save the savefile in 2 parts, the encrypted part of unexplored regions and the open part for systems available to the player already?

Because I am thinking about writing a script to calculate some statistics, and that script should not see unknown stars.

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Re: Thoughtful development, Turns 2..13

#96 Post by Oberlus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:52 am

Uriuk wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:39 am
Also I have converted the savefile into XML-format (via a game options setting).

My question is:
it is possible to save the savefile in 2 parts, the encrypted part of unexplored regions and the open part for systems available to the player already?

Because I am thinking about writing a script to calculate some statistics, and that script should not see unknown stars.
Probably not.
Maybe you can instruct the script to differentiate between systems known by a given empire and the rest (that info is also in the save file).

Uriuk
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Re: Turn 13

#97 Post by Uriuk » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:03 pm

Uriuk wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:58 am
achieving the first development goal, and change in economics (in proportion between costs of production and research).
I didn't make my mind about how to mirror that economic shift in my calculations yet.
How research and production costs are related?
They are two different possible outputs from the work of population.

Initially, Etty has a manufacturing debuff (Bad Industry: 75%)
therefore, in order to develop evenly, I rated production at 4 units of price, and science at 3 units of price.

I can set prices for them based on the needs of civilization
and thus shift all economic decisions in one direction or another.

This was done so that the choice of what the focus of the planet will be,
It was determined not by the monetary policy of the empire, but by other strategic factors.

Since then, nothing has changed with regard to racial composition,
but civilization’s ability to conduct research has increased compared to production capabilities

Research: 12.7
Target Research: 17.5
Rha a I Building Cultural Archives +5.00
Etty Research Focus +5.00
Etty_Empire Tech Algorithmic Elegance +2.50
Rha a I Building Automated History Analyser +5.00

Here we see that rethinking, reestimation and recalculations should had done before, at turn 3,
when Algorithmic Elegance was researched.
But Algorithmic Elegance works only with Research Focus, it doesn't add to research in Production Focus.
Robotic production also works only with Production Focus.

Previous post about currency and prices:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11471#p98781

Redoing calculations from the previous post, now we have:

Turn 1:
Population: 20 (population units)
Production focus: 13 PP + 5 RP
Research focus: 10 PP + 9 RP
1 PP = 1.33 RP
1 RP = 0.75 PP

75/100 = 3/4

1 PP = 4 Cr
1 RP = 3 Cr
Total = 67 Cr

Turn 13:
Population: 25 (population units)
Production Focus: 18.8 PP + 10 RP
Research Focus: 12.5 PP + 17.5 RP
1 PP = 1.19 RP
1 RP = 0.84 PP

84/100 = 21/25

Rate of research points production changed relative to production points,
the prices of RP and PP should be adjusted to avoid "research focus bias"?

It is possible to introduce "Credits2"
1PP = 25 Cr2
1RP = 21 Cr2
Total = 18.8*25+10*21 = 12.5*25+17.5*21 = 680 Cr2

But old credits give the following price of empire's output:
18.8*4+10*3=105.2, or 12.5*4+17.5*3 = 102.5
(105.2 + 102.5)/2 = 103.85 Cr
1 Cr ~= 6.54791 Cr2

We can just say that now
1 PP ~= 3.82 Cr
1 RP ~= 3.21 Cr
18.8*3.82+10*3.21 ~= 103.92 ~= 12.5*3.82+17.5*3.21

I.e. now we pay more for reseach (instead of paying less for it, because research output was increased).
This will lead to preferring researching over production more than earlier, and i want the opposite.
I see some contradiction in my assumptions/logic (and ask to help me to find and understand them).

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Re: Turn 13

#98 Post by Oberlus » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:22 pm

Uriuk wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:03 pm
How research and production costs are related?
They are two different possible outputs from the work of population.

Initially, Etty has a manufacturing debuff (Bad Industry: 75%)
therefore, in order to develop evenly, I rated production at 4 units of price, and science at 3 units of price.
1) Developing evenly (if I get what you mean) is not necessarily the best choice. And often it is a bad choice. Exploit your strengths.
2) Production and Research are not related linearly. As you've been told many times, you are comparing oranges and dignity.
3) Simulate (by playing) each possible outcome from the available choices and see the effects, then you'll know.

monetary policy of the empire
:lol:
Here we see that rethinking, reestimation and recalculations should had done before, at turn 3,
when Algorithmic Elegance was researched.
But Algorithmic Elegance works only with Research Focus, it doesn't add to research in Production Focus.
Robotic production also works only with Production Focus.
What a joke, huh?
Are you going for Adaptive Automation already or still thinking on money and random stuff?

This will lead to preferring researching over production more than earlier, and i want the opposite.
I see some contradiction in my assumptions/logic (and ask to help me to find and understand them).
You should not want that. Etty are a good research, bad production species, so you should go for research early, get nice tech boosts to production (beginning with Adaptive Automation, that give you production regardless of planetary focus) and later focus on production. But you already know that, several players told you, and you have good memory, so I bet the point on asking for "help" now has some hidden agenda.

Warning to mariners: It's a trap!

Uriuk
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Turn 13

#99 Post by Uriuk » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:41 pm

Are you going for Adaptive Automation already or still thinking on money and random stuff?
Raging into war with Hhhoh's is too easy. Just set production focus, research production techs, build ships, and invade.
Nothing to discuss. It's not even a war, just a military operation.

Earlier an independent observer had provided a hypothesis, that my mind may have errors (such as wrong facts and hypothesis, missing knowledge of reality, wrong preferences/biases and other things like that).
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11483&start=75#p99660
("mental issues" he said).
I should explore this possibility seriously. Each issue should be put into an issue tracker, and resolved one way or another.
So, for now I probably stop making moves (no turn 14 next week), until I would resolve at least some of them.
I will catch up with turn rate by performing the military operation in a batch.

What I want to do:
1) describe events happened in turns 1..13 from the point of view of commodity markets in the Capital planet. And describe how these events affects the relation between prices of research points and production points
2) may be perform one more calculation which will use not only "target" measures, but also "current" ones
3) try to build model which involve 2 and 3 species (Hhhohs and Ugmors in addition to Etties), they have different production/research abilities, so my monetary policy should allow to automatically choose the focus for their planets.

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