New species trait: Shields

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Oberlus
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New species trait: Shields

#1 Post by Oberlus » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:51 pm

Apart from Pilots (weapons) trait, and the suggested Armour species trait, the other obvious option affecting combat is ship shields.

Kobuntura (IIRC) have +1 shields to their ships, regardless of mounting or not a shield in the ship. It's nice early game but irrelevant against plasma (or fighters).

I suggest a species trait that gives +20% (rounded up) strength to any mounted shield part in their ships, per level of the trait (if bad, rounded down). Final values for each shield depending on trait would be as follows:
Bad Avg. Good Great Ultim.
Defense grid 2 3 4 5 5
Deflector 4 5 6 7 8
Plasma 7 9 11 13 15
Multispectral 8 10 12 14 16
Black 12 15 18 21 24
Death ray 4 vs ultimate black shield would make 6 (20%) damage per shot if average pilots, 21 (47%) if ultimate pilots. There's no need to include any Ultimate species in the mix, though. Kobuntura could remain as it is, or change it for "Good Shields".

Doesn't seem an OP trait since shields can always be countered with bombers/fighters.


Do you like it?



Alternatively, the Shields trait could be about part cost, so that Good Shields reduce shield parts' cost by 33%, Great by 50%, Ultimate by 67%. But I like more the above version.

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The Silent One
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Re: New species trait: Shields

#2 Post by The Silent One » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:51 pm
Kobuntura (IIRC) have +1 shields to their ships, regardless of mounting or not a shield in the ship.
Acirema, I think. Other than that, sounds good - how would it interact with robotic shields, though?
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Re: New species trait: Shields

#3 Post by Oberlus » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:52 pm

The Silent One wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 pm
how would it interact with robotic shields, though?
Good question.
Maximum RIS strength is 20. Ultimate shields with that would be 32, arguably too powerful. Maybe it could be treated as a deflector (-1/+1/+2/+3), regardless of actual RIS strength. Like a plasma (-2,+2,+4,+6) seems too powerful, given that RIS costs 70 and plasma 90.

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Re: New species trait: Shields

#4 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:47 am

Oberlus wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:52 pm
The Silent One wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 pm
how would it interact with robotic shields, though?
Good question.
Maximum RIS strength is 20. Ultimate shields with that would be 32, arguably too powerful. Maybe it could be treated as a deflector (-1/+1/+2/+3), regardless of actual RIS strength. Like a plasma (-2,+2,+4,+6) seems too powerful, given that RIS costs 70 and plasma 90.
As robotic interface shield is based on the number of ships: How about treating it each step as counting 20% more than a regular ship? (So a great shield species would get the same benefit from having 10 ships for which an average species would need 14 ships).
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: New species trait: Shields

#5 Post by Oberlus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:51 am

I like that, Ophiuchus. So maximum RIS strength stays at 20, but good species get there sooner.

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Re: New species trait: Shields

#6 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:57 am

Oberlus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:51 am
I like that, Ophiuchus. So maximum RIS strength stays at 20, but good species get there sooner.
Just note that balancing wise this of course could be large nerf to the robotic shields comparatively to other shields with shield trait.

But having to choose between different combat-related traits it is definitly a win. Great shields plus Bad pilot species would be nice (hm.. Gysache maybe?).
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: New species trait: Shields

#7 Post by Oberlus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:35 am

Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:57 am
Just note that balancing wise this of course could be large nerf to the robotic shields comparatively to other shields with shield trait.
Maybe we can change the 20% value for the RIS, to make it more competitive if deemed necessary.
Nevertheless, RIS seems underused with current values, maybe it could use a rework of its strength formula. Actually, shields in general seems underused (since we have fighters), but I always see defense grid / deflector ships, seldom a plasma shield ship, in multiplayer games. Never a RIS. I guess having to pile up a few tens of ships to get the same effect that you would get with a single plasma shield part is discouraging.

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Re: New species trait: Shields

#8 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:05 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:35 am
Maybe we can change the 20% value for the RIS, to make it more competitive if deemed necessary.
Nevertheless, RIS seems underused with current values, maybe it could use a rework of its strength formula. Actually, shields in general seems underused (since we have fighters), but I always see defense grid / deflector ships, seldom a plasma shield ship, in multiplayer games. Never a RIS. I guess having to pile up a few tens of ships to get the same effect that you would get with a single plasma shield part is discouraging.
The KISS hard targeting will be a nerf for fighters on the defense side, so expect more ships for soaking shots. Moving to four combat bouts will be another fighter nerf (if countered), expect more flak i guess. Adding the gamma slingshot will be a buff for shielded ships. I still think we should ~halve the cost of shields nonetheless. The robotic interface shields require a large investment, i think you are right that the extra bonus they provide is too easily countered since there are fighters.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: New species trait: Shields

#9 Post by Oberlus » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:15 pm

Topic splitted into this one (with the last two posts edited to split them between topics), one for the general discussion, and one for the ship speed species trait.

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