Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Moderators: Oberlus, Oberlus

How big alliance will be allowed to win the game?

Poll ended at Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:22 pm

1
4
31%
2
4
31%
3
3
23%
4
1
8%
5
1
8%
 
Total votes: 13

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Oberlus
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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#121 Post by Oberlus » Sat May 23, 2020 11:19 pm

Voker57 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:15 pm
Will new techs even work properly on existing save?
No idea.
Voker57 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:15 pm
Let us not introduce balance-changing patches midgame.
I'm OK with either way.
The nerf has been merged to be included in v0.4.10 to match the nerf on pop-dependent boost.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#122 Post by Ophiuchus » Sun May 24, 2020 2:35 pm

Voker57 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:15 pm
Will new techs even work properly on existing save?
Always depends on the implementation. AFAICR this time the old techs identifiers got reused for the higher-tier tech, so if you already have the old tech researched you get the high-tier tech cheaper than you would have gotten it. So rather unfair to those not having researched AA/NAI yet. If everybody researched the AA/NAI everyone gets a boost.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#123 Post by Oberlus » Mon May 25, 2020 9:50 am

Ophiuchus wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:35 pm
Voker57 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:15 pm
Will new techs even work properly on existing save?
Always depends on the implementation. AFAICR this time the old techs identifiers got reused for the higher-tier tech, so if you already have the old tech researched you get the high-tier tech cheaper than you would have gotten it. So rather unfair to those not having researched AA/NAI yet. If everybody researched the AA/NAI everyone gets a boost.
That's right...

Since current build used in the server and the clients for this game is still a bit buggy (e.g. crashes when moving ships out/into fleets), it would be a pity to not update. But updating to the new tech tree would be a real mess.

An option would be update to v0.4.10 RC but changing names of the two new and previous techs (interchange LRN_NASCENT_AI and LRN_ARTIF_MINDS names in the relevant files, same for PRO_SENTIENT_AUTO and PRO_ADAPTIVE_AUTO), and maybe adjust flat values to be less strong the nerf, all this done in the clients and the server before anyone connect to the update server and plays a turn. And always assuming there won't be a problem anyways with the save files.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#124 Post by o01eg » Mon May 25, 2020 11:18 am

Oberlus wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:50 am
Ophiuchus wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:35 pm
Voker57 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:15 pm
Will new techs even work properly on existing save?
Always depends on the implementation. AFAICR this time the old techs identifiers got reused for the higher-tier tech, so if you already have the old tech researched you get the high-tier tech cheaper than you would have gotten it. So rather unfair to those not having researched AA/NAI yet. If everybody researched the AA/NAI everyone gets a boost.
That's right...

Since current build used in the server and the clients for this game is still a bit buggy (e.g. crashes when moving ships out/into fleets), it would be a pity to not update. But updating to the new tech tree would be a real mess.

An option would be update to v0.4.10 RC but changing names of the two new and previous techs (interchange LRN_NASCENT_AI and LRN_ARTIF_MINDS names in the relevant files, same for PRO_SENTIENT_AUTO and PRO_ADAPTIVE_AUTO), and maybe adjust flat values to be less strong the nerf, all this done in the clients and the server before anyone connect to the update server and plays a turn. And always assuming there won't be a problem anyways with the save files.
Will it be game-breaking if we follow 0.4.10 release branch? As I understand exobot population patches are also included.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-9.2, boost-1.72.0
Ubuntu Server 18.04 x64, gcc-7.4, boost-1.65.1
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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#125 Post by Oberlus » Mon May 25, 2020 2:05 pm

o01eg wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:18 am
Oberlus wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:50 am
Ophiuchus wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:35 pm

Always depends on the implementation. AFAICR this time the old techs identifiers got reused for the higher-tier tech, so if you already have the old tech researched you get the high-tier tech cheaper than you would have gotten it. So rather unfair to those not having researched AA/NAI yet. If everybody researched the AA/NAI everyone gets a boost.
That's right...

Since current build used in the server and the clients for this game is still a bit buggy (e.g. crashes when moving ships out/into fleets), it would be a pity to not update. But updating to the new tech tree would be a real mess.

An option would be update to v0.4.10 RC but changing names of the two new and previous techs (interchange LRN_NASCENT_AI and LRN_ARTIF_MINDS names in the relevant files, same for PRO_SENTIENT_AUTO and PRO_ADAPTIVE_AUTO), and maybe adjust flat values to be less strong the nerf, all this done in the clients and the server before anyone connect to the update server and plays a turn. And always assuming there won't be a problem anyways with the save files.
Will it be game-breaking if we follow 0.4.10 release branch? As I understand exobot population patches are also included.
There are two new techs, Artificial Minds (+3 RP) and Sentient Automation (+6 PP), that have FOCS names LRN_ARTIF_MINDS and PRO_SENTIENT_AUTOMATION. These were the FOCS names that had Nastent AI and Adaptive Automation.¡¡
The old techs Nascent AI (now +1 RP) and Adaptive Automation (now +2 PP) now have FOCS names LRN_NASCENT_AI and PRO_ADAPTIVE_AUTOMATION. But before they where named LRN_ARTIF_MINDS and PRO_SENTIENT_AUTOMATION.
If Ophiuchus is right, which I think is the case, using v0.4.10 would make us have researched Sentient Automation and Artificial Minds (the end game flat bonus techs) and not have Nascent AI and Adaptive Automation (the early game flat bonus techs).
I don't know if this would cause any more trouble than giving a boost to RP and PP flat output and mess with balance.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#126 Post by Oberlus » Tue May 26, 2020 7:12 pm

I've checked out that loading a game with "old" Nascent AI researched with v0.4.10 does make new Artif. Minds (late game) unlocked, as Ophiuchus predicted.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#127 Post by o01eg » Tue May 26, 2020 8:51 pm

The server updated to pre-release test build (build 2020-05-26.d034b5d) for the upcoming 0.4.10 release.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-9.2, boost-1.72.0
Ubuntu Server 18.04 x64, gcc-7.4, boost-1.65.1
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swaq
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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#128 Post by swaq » Tue May 26, 2020 9:12 pm

.... uhhhh
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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#129 Post by Oberlus » Tue May 26, 2020 9:25 pm

Something is wrong...
Might that be the cause for the server not responding right now? (I was welcome with a blank screen)

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#130 Post by o01eg » Tue May 26, 2020 9:26 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:25 pm
Something is wrong...
Might that be the cause for the server not responding right now? (I was welcome with a blank screen)
I've restarted the server.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-9.2, boost-1.72.0
Ubuntu Server 18.04 x64, gcc-7.4, boost-1.65.1
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2020-05-26.d034b5d.
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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#131 Post by Oberlus » Tue May 26, 2020 9:34 pm

o01eg wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:26 pm
Oberlus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:25 pm
Something is wrong...
Might that be the cause for the server not responding right now? (I was welcome with a blank screen)
I've restarted the server.
Successfully connected and played my turn. My Exobots got stuck since I no longer have Nascent AI.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#132 Post by Voker57 » Tue May 26, 2020 9:49 pm

Every tech we researched is rebalanced. I agree with L29Ah proposal that non-bug-fixing patches should not be applied in the middle of the game, and now the server should be rolled back to previous version.
Team S.M.A.C.: destroying dreams of multiplayer 4x since 2017.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#133 Post by Oberlus » Tue May 26, 2020 11:13 pm

Voker57 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:49 pm
Every tech we researched is rebalanced. I agree with L29Ah proposal that non-bug-fixing patches should not be applied in the middle of the game, and now the server should be rolled back to previous version.
We still have the problem that o01eg can't provide Windows builds.

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#134 Post by L29Ah » Wed May 27, 2020 5:16 am

Oberlus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:13 pm
Voker57 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:49 pm
Every tech we researched is rebalanced. I agree with L29Ah proposal that non-bug-fixing patches should not be applied in the middle of the game, and now the server should be rolled back to previous version.
We still have the problem that o01eg can't provide Windows builds.
My proposal was about future games. That is: for the following games, updates to the server are only applied by the consensual decision of all non-eliminated players of that game; if the host is misbehaving, it is replaced.

Windows zealots can probably figure on their own what to do about their superior system being to unable to do basic programming tasks. It shouldn't even be necessary, though, since they can always veto any game-breaking upgrade, and we're going to start from some known good version that has all known bugs fixed.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

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Re: Tenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#135 Post by o01eg » Wed May 27, 2020 5:26 am

L29Ah wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:16 am
some known good version that has all known bugs fixed.
That is what called released version and updating server is a part of ensuring "all known bugs fixed".
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-9.2, boost-1.72.0
Ubuntu Server 18.04 x64, gcc-7.4, boost-1.65.1
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2020-05-26.d034b5d.
Donations are welcome: BTC:14XLekD9ifwqLtZX4iteepvbLQNYVG87zK

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