Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#46 Post by BlueAward »

The arms are already getting thinner along the way, the way I approached this. It is not that true in original spiral, but the transformation to spiral gave such impression. Or more like crescent 🌙 shape, rather. I actually relaxed it a bit to be more like trapeze not a triangle if I want to, but original was pretty much a rectangle (although fuzzy) transformed into a spiral arm

I am not changing anything regarding empire placement, specials, monsters etc. I believe I wrote that. It is a step in the direction you envisioned with lode space etc., but not a huge leap. Your imagination is racing too much forward. This is thus not solving many of other existing problems, this is just a way to have a cozy corner for everybody and a center arena, hopefully the center gives more opportunities than individual arm. But, someone can have better or worse luck in their corner, still

Instead of a spiral it could be central cluster plus satellite clusters around. or ⭐ star shape, not spiral. Just thought spiral is more topical, less.. synthetic.

Hmm I think the logarithmic spiral looks less like a swastika, I also flipped it to match icon and also not be the same chirality as nazi symbol

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#47 Post by BlueAward »

Don't think I will have time to create a separate map or tweak it further.

So here goes my piggy backing on top of the original spiral creation

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... e998e9c75e

this is some tweaked logarithmic spiral with arms bound physicially rather than fuzzy like the original had through gaussian distribution

If we get 5th person I think we can still have a 5 arm spiral, though need to hardcode arms to 5 in the function, and possibly tweak thickness or angle a bit (or try the arithmetic instead)

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#48 Post by BlueAward »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:46 pm Once more I suggest tweaking positions of systems after creating starlanes and positioning empires.
I'm not in position to change too much at the moment.

TBH I'd generally change the philosophy of universe generation, ordering of the pipeline. I'd generate systems and starlanes first, then algorithmically distribute empires' start positions so they are furthest apart (maybe add ability to zone no-go areas, though, so you can have some untouchable middle for example). Then generate everything around that i.e. fill in systems with planets, specials, monsters etc.

Then one could "somehow" evaluate the generation as far as every empire is concerned, and if something seems imbalanced, then try to regenerate or tweak? (some evolutionary algorithm could potentially work well, depending on the evaluation function)

What is now I gather is trying to insert the empires in already generated universe, evaluating "somehow", so I mostly would want to flip that, generate universe around the empires starting positions. The biggest trick is giving weights to various specials, enviornments, monsters, natives etc - trying to catch everything. Though for starters one could only evaluate environments diversity in some vicinity, per something that wobbly suggested in tweaking generation

wobbly
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#49 Post by wobbly »

It's mostly the order you are suggesting?

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... nerator.py

System Positions
Planets
Starlanes
Empire Positions
Name Systems/Planets
Fields
Natives
Monsters
Specials

What it lacks is any real sophistication about how it places around the empires. It won't place certain specials or monsters within x of empires, but otherwise its random.

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#50 Post by BlueAward »

Essentially yes I would generate systems and starlanes first, then place empires in that graph (stressing mutual distances and not much more, though system generation could zone no-empire areas for example). Then when empires are placed, generate whatever else around them to meet some evaluation criteria for each empire.

I thought it takes more into consideration when placing empires, but it can only take mutual distances and planets in the vicinity.

You had some idea (not sure if implemented) to evaluate starting locations based on planets that are around (in current pipeline it seems cannot take much else) So I was thinking, why not place empires first, then planets, and see if that step meets your criteria, and try to regenerate planets a few times leaving the empires positions as they are.

And that could be extended to other elements, as long as you have some evaluating function, for example about specials. Separately each step or wholesale

o01eg
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#51 Post by o01eg »

I put planned date for test game to April 23rd. Will spiral universe generator be ready to that time?
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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#52 Post by BlueAward »

o01eg wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:53 pm I put planned date for test game to April 23rd. Will spiral universe generator be ready to that time?
Can you merge in the change I mentioned earlier privately for the game? And use normal 4 arm spiral? It just needs to be there for the generation

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... e998e9c75e

I modified the spiral galaxy generation there. Will not be able to make it a seperate style and push officially to main.

Ultimately I don't want to replace old spiral but it is what it is for now

o01eg
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#53 Post by o01eg »

BlueAward wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:42 pm Can you merge in the change I mentioned earlier privately for the game? And use normal 4 arm spiral? It just needs to be there for the generation
Yes, of course, except there will be merge conflicts with planned weekly test build version.
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wobbly
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#54 Post by wobbly »

I can try and shift it to its own galaxy shape, what am I calling it?

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#55 Post by BlueAward »

o01eg wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:27 am
BlueAward wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:42 pm Can you merge in the change I mentioned earlier privately for the game? And use normal 4 arm spiral? It just needs to be there for the generation
Yes, of course, except there will be merge conflicts with planned weekly test build version.
There will be? Somebody is changing something there in galaxy.py ? It's required just for galaxy gen anyway, then you can revert

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#56 Post by BlueAward »

wobbly wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:48 am I can try and shift it to its own galaxy shape, what am I calling it?
I wanted to call it Spiral Arena, and make it dependent on number of players to autoadjust numbers if arms, but haven't gone that far

Think would be nice to add exclusion zones to ban empire spawns, that way I could permanently exclude middle area from empire spawning, but that's further down the line

o01eg
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#57 Post by o01eg »

BlueAward wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:32 pm
o01eg wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:27 am
BlueAward wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:42 pm Can you merge in the change I mentioned earlier privately for the game? And use normal 4 arm spiral? It just needs to be there for the generation
Yes, of course, except there will be merge conflicts with planned weekly test build version.
There will be? Somebody is changing something there in galaxy.py ? It's required just for galaxy gen anyway, then you can revert
No, currently it should be fine.
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o01eg
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#58 Post by o01eg »

As the game is going to launch soon I'd like to re-check player list.
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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#59 Post by Oberlus »

I am available to play.
I don't mind waiting a few extra weeks for some players to come back from whatever they are (road trips, vacations from FO...).

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-seventh game on the multiplayer slow game server

#60 Post by BlueAward »

I am indeed back and available for play.

For a few days now, but forums were down, I messaged in game mp26 but that's much better anyway now that forum is up

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